[Advaita-l] Fwd: Brahman has no default form; Only contextual form - Varaha Purana

[V Subrahmanian]

On Tue, Feb 28, 2023 at 10:06 AM H S Chandramouli via Advaita-l <
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

> Namaste.
>
> Sri Subrahmanian Ji wrote
>
> Reg  <<  Even in the case of the form of say, Krishna, the 'bhautika'
> element is
> very much there: From a fetus in the womb, to the baby, there was growing
> up into an adult, a man and one who became grand and great grandfather. All
> these are characteristics of any other human body >>,
>
> Body of Sri Krishna is not admitted to be “bhautika”.
>

Namaste.

I am aware of the fact that it is not bhautika. But such a body was
'conceived' in the womb, delivered, grew up, became old, etc.  There is
also a mention in the Bhagavatam that Krishna was even wounded by arrows
and bled. Surely the need for sleep, food, etc. was also there. One might
say all this is 'leela'. But the body behaved in no different way than any
other body. Krishna also was cremated for which Arjuna had gone. All this
is not due to karma of the ordinary jiva type.

I meant only this. The bhautika element can't be ignored. Mayopadhi can be
of this nature too. This is what the  Laghuchandrika says for 'aprAkRta' in
Advaitasiddhi:

तथा च अप्राकृतपदेन प्राकृतविलक्ष्सणमायोपाधिकत्वेन....   If anyone can
elucidate this line that would help....

He says this in the gloss for the Siddhi's words: अत एव
'अरूपतोऽप्राकृतशे'ति स्मृत्यैवारूपश्रुतिगत्युक्तेः...(Pariccheda 2
ananthakrishna Sastry edition page 744)

regards
subbu

>
> BGB, Introductory part to 1st Chapter,
>
> <<  स च भगवान् ज्ञानैश्वर्यशक्तिबलवीर्यतेजोभिः सदा सम्पन्नः त्रिगुणात्मिकां
> स्वां मायां मूलप्रकृतिं वशीकृत्य, अजोऽव्ययो भूतानामीश्वरो
> नित्यशुद्धबुद्धमुक्तस्वभावोऽपि सन् , स्वमायया देहवानिव जात इव च लोकानुग्रहं
> कुर्वन् लक्ष्यते । >>
>
> <<  sa cha bhagavAn j~nAnaishvaryashaktibalavIryatejobhiH sadA sampannaH
> triguNAtmikAM svAM mAyAM mUlaprakRRitiM vashIkRRitya, ajo.avyayo
> bhUtAnAmIshvaro nityashuddhabuddhamuktasvabhAvo.api san , svamAyayA
> dehavAniva jAta iva cha lokAnugrahaM kurvan lakShyate | >>,
>
> Translation  by Krishna Warrier  <<  The Lord is in eternal possession of
> knowledge,lordliness, executive power, strength, energy and splendor. He
> has under His control His All-pervasive mAyA (Illusive power) or material
> nature, whose essence  is the three constituents. Thus, though
> unborn,immutable, Lord of beings, and, in essence, eternally pure,
> conscious and free, He appears, by virtue of His mAyA, to be embodied and
> born as man, for ensuring the welfre of the world >>
>
> BGB, referred part above, also mentions
>
> <<  स आदिकर्ता नारायणाख्यो विष्णुः भौमस्य ब्रह्मणो ब्राह्मणत्वस्य
> रक्षणार्थं
>  देवक्यां वसुदेवादंशेन कृष्णः किल सम्बभूव । >>
>
> <<  sa AdikartA nArAyaNAkhyo viShNuH bhaumasya brahmaNo brAhmaNatvasya
> rakShaNArthaM devakyAM vasudevAdaMshena kRRiShNaH kila sambabhUva | >>
>
> Anandagiri tIka  on this observes
>
> <<  *अंशेनेति** ।*
>
> स्वेच्छानिर्मितेन मायामयेन स्वरूपेणेत्यर्थः ।  >>
>
> <<  aMsheneti | svechChAnirmitena mAyAmayena svarUpeNetyarthaH |  >>
>
> BGB 4-6 also mentions
>
> <<  तां प्रकृतिं स्वाम् अधिष्ठाय वशीकृत्य सम्भवामि देहवानिव भवामि जात इव
> आत्ममायया आत्मनः मायया, न परमार्थतो लोकवत् ॥ ६ ॥ >>
>
> << tAM prakRRitiM svAm adhiShThAya vashIkRRitya sambhavAmi dehavAniva
> bhavAmi jAta iva
>
> AtmamAyayA AtmanaH mAyayA, na paramArthato lokavat || 6 || >>
>
> Translation (Swami Gambhirananda)  <<  By subjugating that Prakriti of
> Mine, sambhavami, I take birth, appear to become embodied, as though born;
> Atma mAyayA, by means of my own mAyA; but not in reality like an ordinary
> man >>
>
> Regards
>
> On Fri, Feb 24, 2023 at 10:15 PM V Subrahmanian via Advaita-l <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>
> > Dear Raghav ji,
> >
> > Even in the case of the form of say, Krishna, the 'bhautika' element is
> > very much there: From a fetus in the womb, to the baby, there was growing
> > up into an adult, a man and one who became grand and great grandfather.
> All
> > these are characteristics of any other human body.
> >
> > I think in the Advaita siddhi there is a clarification on what really is
> > a-prAkRta:  The Laghuchandrika commentary states the distinction between
> > what is a-prAkRta and prAkRta.  I would like to get more clarity on this.
> >
> > warm regards
> > subbu
> >
> > On Fri, Feb 24, 2023 at 8:51 PM Raghav Kumar Dwivedula via Advaita-l <
> > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> >
> > > Namaste Subbu ji
> > > That is the crux of the issue of whether the forms worshipped as
> Ishvara
> > > are indeed direct manifestation of Ishvara or they are exalted jeevas
> who
> > > attained those forms and as arthavAda they are praised as Ishvara.
> > >
> > > Once we acknowledge that icchAvaShAt, Ishvara can directly assume a
> > > mAyAmaya sharIra (which did not have a prior karma chronology as is
> > indeed
> > > the case with devatAs), then both avatAras of bhUloka like Sri Krishna
> > and
> > > also other forms like vAmana, Narasimha,  Uma Haimavati etc asserted by
> > the
> > > shAstra as available for interaction in other lokas are all direct
> forms
> > of
> > > Ishvara who is himself kAraNopAdhika and has no one fixed or default
> > form.
> > > The mere fact that these direct forms of Ishvara are bhautika does not
> > > imply jeevatvam.
> > >
> > >  "Any intelligent being endowed with a bhautika form (of one or more of
> > the
> > > five elements) is necessarily a jeeva" has hetu vyabhichAra in the case
> > of
> > > avatAras. So once that idea is dismissed, the forms worshipped viShNu
> etc
> > > ., can well be within the bhautika prapancha without any detrimental to
> > > their IshvaratvaM.
> > >
> > > Thank you and Venkat ji for clarifying the sAyujya question amongst
> other
> > > insightful posts.
> > >
> > > Om
> > >
> > > P S. The pic sent by you looks more like viShNu rather than Shiva but
> > > apparently he is called tri-shira Shiva.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://www.rarebooksocietyofindia.org/postDetail.php?id=196174216674_10152254158471675
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