[Advaita-l] Free will, time and the Kali Yuga

[Vishesh Bhat]

Thank you Kaushik and Jaldhar for mostly dispelling the confusion I had,
although the nature of mind is such that it is never completely free from
doubts. I presume that's the difference between someone engulfed by
materialism and a true bhakta. This is going to be a long and painful
process.

On Tue, 7 Nov 2023, 20:53 R Krishnamoorthy via Advaita-l, <
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

> Dears
> Karma is inert ( Karma thath Jadam - Bhagavan Sri Ramana )or it has no
> free will to act by its own accord.Brahman ( Easwara)is the phala dhatha .
> R.Krishnamoorthy.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> > On 07-Nov-2023, at 11:50 AM, Jaldhar H. Vyas via Advaita-l <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> >
> > [Was Re: [Advaita-l] (no subject) Please remember to provide a
> descriptive subject line.]
> >
> >> On Tue, 31 Oct 2023, Vishesh Bhat via Advaita-l wrote:
> >>
> >> Namaskara,
> >>
> >> I was going through the Mahabharata and came across the passage where
> Sage
> >> Markandeya describes the nature of Kaliyuga to Yudhisthira. The passage
> >> seems to indicate an absence of free-will. If Kali Yuga is indeed
> destined
> >> to be as described (which also fills me with great dread), then doesnt
> this
> >> indicate a complete absence of free will? What is the interpretation of
> >> this?
> >>
> >
> > Interestingly just recently the neuroscientist and philosopher Dr.
> Robert Sapolsky came out with a new book in which he contends the existence
> of deterministic physical laws means that free will cannot exist.
> >
> > Karma leads to the same conclusion.  If your present actions are
> dependent on the dispositions caused by previous actions in past lives then
> "free" will is not possible.
> >
> > But what were the causes of those previous actions?  Actions even more
> prior to that. And what caused them...?  There is an infinite regression.
> So you cannot actually say which previous action is _the_ cause of any
> present action.  In practice you are free to act even if in theory you are
> not.
> >
> >
> >> Another question is about Kalki's appearance and in general about
> avAtaras.
> >> If Brahman alone is real, then the notions of good and evil limited to
> >> vyavahArika reality should not be of any concern.
> >
> > Unless you are in that vyavaharika reality which most of are!  But even
> for the sannyasi who has overcome such notions, he sees all as his own self
> and wants what is best for all as for his own self.
> >
> >
> >> What is the need for this
> >> intervention in the form of avatAras to uphold Dharma which Krishna
> >> too talks about in the Gita?
> >>
> >
> > As Kaushik wrote it is for dushta sikshana and shista rakshana.  But
> this is not done on a whim.  Bhagavan impartially allots the phala on the
> basis of the karma.  We see that Bhagavan Varaha appeared after the
> entreaties of Bhudevi who was sinking under the weight of adharma.
> Bhagavan Nrsimha appeared for Prahlada.  Without the prayers of the
> meritorious there wouldn't be avataras.  In the Bhagavata Purana it is told
> that by the end of the Kali yuga there will be very few dharmic people but
> the power of their punya will be so great Bhagavan Kalki will appear and
> inaugrate a new yuga chakra.
> >
> >
> >> Lastly, does this mean that the Vedas too will cease to be known in the
> >> Kali Yuga?
> >
> > The popular maxim says that in the Satya yuga the cow of Dharma stands
> on four legs but by the Kali yuga it is teetering on one.  One leg is
> definitely an inferior and unwanted situation but it is still not the same
> as zero legs.  Our dharma is called sanatana for a reason.
> >
> >> On Wed, 1 Nov 2023, Vishesh Bhat via Advaita-l wrote:
> >>
> >> Even at the vyaharika level, if a good person is undergoing suffering,
> isnt it just his Prarabdha karma?
> >
> > Yes.  But see what I wrote above above infinite regress.  You simply
> cannot say with certainty that outcome Y was due to cause X.
> >
> >
> >> why does Brahman intervene as an avatara to establish a
> >> certai type of order, i.e. an order defined by Dharma?I think a probable
> >> confusion here is how does Advaita interpret Dharma itself? Is it a more
> >> favourable setup?
> >
> > Advaita Vedanta like all other astika darshans takes it for granted that
> Vedic dharma is the natural law.  The actual task of justifying that was
> taken up more by the Mimamsakas and Nyayaikas.
> >
> >> On Wed, 1 Nov 2023, Vishesh Bhat via Advaita-l wrote:
> >>
> >> Just to clarify what I mean. If Kali Yuga has a predestined progression
> of
> >> events and degradation of Dharma, then it seems to imply that whatever
> be
> >> the actions of the Jivas, they are destined to suffer.
> >
> > That the Kali Yuga is followed by another Satyayuga implies that they
> are destined to stop suffering no?  There is infinite regress (progress?)
> to the future too.
> >
> > Time keeps on going like this round and round in circles.  Thus Advaita
> Vedanta teaches you will never get satisfaction from time so concentrate on
> Brahman who is beyond time.
> >
> > --
> > Jaldhar H. Vyas <jaldhar at braincells.com>
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