[Advaita-l] [advaitin] Re: Does the mukta/jnani see the world?

[Sudhanshu Shekhar]

Namaste Chandramouli ji.

So what exactly is the error which you find in my statements so far which
are not in accordance with TIkA.

On Thu, 16 Nov, 2023, 4:02 pm H S Chandramouli, <hschandramouli at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Namaste Sudhanshu Ji,
>
> The tIkA clarifies the meaning of the word पदार्थधिया (padArthadhiyA)
> appearing in the verse 84 as **  पदार्थधिया शुद्धतत्वंपदार्थनिश्चयेन **
> (padArthadhiyA shuddhatatvaMpadArthanishchayena ). This is exactly what is
> stated in the translation I had posted for verse 2-84 in my earlier post.
>
> Regards
>
>
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> On Thu, Nov 16, 2023 at 3:39 PM H S Chandramouli <hschandramouli at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Namaste Sudhanshu Ji,
>>
>> Thanks for the link. Since the title said Part 1, I did not check further
>> earlier.
>>
>> The tIkA on 2-84 confirms my earlier stated understanding. तत्त्वमसि
>> (tatvamasi) means परिपूर्णदृष्टिं  निष्प्रपञ्चप्रत्यग्ब्रह्माभेददृष्टिम्
>> (paripUrNadRRiShTiM  niShprapa~nchapratyagbrahmAbhedadRRiShTim) stated in
>> tIkA on verse 84.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 16, 2023 at 3:11 PM Sudhanshu Shekhar <
>> sudhanshu.iitk at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Namaste Chandramouli ji.
>>>
>>> Pl check the TIkA.
>>> https://archive.org/details/WRJC_sankshepa-sharirak-chapter-1-with-explanation-by-madhusudan-sarasvati-1887-kashika-press-kashi/page/n613/mode/2up
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 16, 2023 at 2:43 PM H S Chandramouli <
>>> hschandramouli at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Namaste Sudhanshu Ji,
>>>>
>>>> Reg  // The TIkA by MS on sankshepa shArIraka 2.82 to 2.85 may be
>>>> perused. Here, the text classifies three drishTi, pariNAma-drishTi,
>>>> vivarta-drishTi and antyA-drishTi. It says that one attains Moksha through
>>>> antyA-drishTi by sequentially sublimating the earlier drishTi //,
>>>>
>>>> I was not able to get at the tIkA of Sri MS on SAMKSEPASARIRAKA.
>>>> However I could get to download the text SAMKSEPASARIRAKA itself with
>>>> translation by Prof Veezhinathan at the following link
>>>>
>>>> //
>>>> https://ia600906.us.archive.org/13/items/SankshepaSarirakaOfSarvajnatmaVeezhinathanN/Sankshepa%20Sariraka%20of%20Sarvajnatma%20Veezhinathan%20N_text.pdf
>>>> //
>>>>
>>>> I am copying below the translation of verses 2-83 to 2-85.  I have not
>>>> copied for 2-82 as the page is missing. But it may not affect the
>>>> conclusion.
>>>>
>>>> 2-83 // The view that the universe is real is the lowest (preli¬
>>>> minary); and the view that the universe is not real lies in between (the
>>>> lowest and the ultimate views'). The knowledge which instructs the universe
>>>> to be unreal and which anni¬ hilates the illusive universe is ultimate. The
>>>> blend (of the lowest and the ultimate views) is twofold as the notion of
>>>> the existence of only one individual soul and the notion of existence of
>>>> many souls longing for liberation. Here the negation of each preceding view
>>>> leads to each succeeding view //
>>>>
>>>> 2-84  // The aspirant sets aside the notion of transformation and then
>>>> cultivates the notion of transfiguration. Dis¬ regarding even that by the
>>>> knowledge of the (secondary) senses of the terms (tat and tvam in the
>>>> sentence tat tvam asi) he attains the knowledge of the oneness of the self
>>>> //
>>>>
>>>> 2-85  //  The aspirant who longs for liberation and who is intended to
>>>> be conveyed by the word atha1 pursues the variety of notions in due
>>>> sequence as mentioned above. Then, being freed from the knowledge of all
>>>> duality, he remains in his own supreme nature //.
>>>>
>>>> It is clear from the above, at least to me, that there appears to be a
>>>> misunderstanding of the terms pariNAma-drishTi, vivarta-drishTi and
>>>> antyA-drishTi cited by you from the tIkA. In my understanding,
>>>> vivarta-drishTi refers to तत् (tat) only, and antyA-drishTi refers to
>>>> तत्त्वमसि (tatvamasi). You may like to recheck the tIkA.
>>>>
>>>> With this understanding, there is no difference between the tIkA and
>>>> SDV/DSV as far as attaining Moksha is concerned. Your following statement
>>>> may need review.
>>>>
>>>>  //  My point is only this. Neither DSV nor SDV can take one to
>>>> Moksha. For they are within the vivarta-vAda which maintains the
>>>> prapancha-bhramatva // .
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Nov 14, 2023 at 7:03 PM Sudhanshu Shekhar <
>>>> sudhanshu.iitk at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Namaste Chandramouli ji,
>>>>>
>>>>> The TIkA by MS on sankshepa shArIraka 2.82 to 2.85 may be perused.
>>>>> Here, the text classifies three drishTi, pariNAma-drishTi, vivarta-drishTi
>>>>> and antyA-drishTi. It says that one attains Moksha through antyA-drishTi by
>>>>> sequentially sublimating the earlier drishTi.
>>>>>
>>>>> MS bifurcates vivarta-drishTi in two parts, nAnA-jIva and one-jIva
>>>>> which is what SDV and DSV are respectively. He categorically states that
>>>>> vivarta-drishTi is incapable of leading one to Moksha. I quote from 2.82 -
>>>>> तत्त्वक्षति: प्रपञ्चसत्यत्वक्षतिकरी या विवर्तदृष्टि: सा मध्यमा,
>>>>> ब्रह्मविचाराद्यधीन विवर्तदृष्टेः विवेकादिमत् पुरुषाश्रायत्वात् परम्परया
>>>>> मोक्षोपयोगित्वात् आत्मविषयत्वात् च सा पूर्वदृष्ट्यपेक्षया उत्तमा, तावत्या
>>>>> #द्वैतोपशान्त्यसम्भवाद्# द्वैतोपशान्त्यपेक्षया जघन्या इति मध्यमा इति
>>>>> अर्थः।.....विवर्तदृष्टेरपि जीवैकत्व नानात्व विषयतया द्वैविध्यम् आह ...
>>>>>
>>>>> //This implies that as per Sri MS,  all the prakriyAs lead to the same
>>>>> Goal. There is no difference in the status of the sAdhaka who reaches the
>>>>> Goal through whichever prakriyA. Your contention appears to imply that the
>>>>> status is different depending upon whether SDV or DSV or AjAtivAda is
>>>>> followed by the sAdhaka.//
>>>>>
>>>>> Whether it is pariNAma-vAda or vivarta-vAda (which includes SDV and
>>>>> DSV), they are useful in so far as they sequentially take one to
>>>>> antyA-drishTi.
>>>>>
>>>>> antyA-drishTi is apavAda-drishTi. However, to reach there, one has to
>>>>> necessarily sequentially pass through SDV and DSV. Since, DSV is just a
>>>>> step short to antyA-drishTi, it is the most superior. In antyA-drishTi,
>>>>> there is apavAda, basically ajAtivAda.
>>>>>
>>>>> My point is only this. Neither DSV nor SDV can take one to Moksha. For
>>>>> they are within the vivarta-vAda which maintains the prapancha-bhramatva.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is only the antyA-drishTi, the ajAtivAda which is the truth. I
>>>>> would request to kindly peruse 2.82 to 2.85 TIkA. I cannot find any soft
>>>>> copy. I have the Hindi translation and reproducing the Sanskrit here will
>>>>> take time.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>> --
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>>> Pune
>>>
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>>