[Advaita-l] avidyA and mind in samAdhi

[V Subrahmanian]

Dear Sudhanshu ji,

The answer to all questions lies in the Panchadashi and commentary, as I
see it. It addresses both the situations: mUlavidyA naAsha, in case of the
samadhi where aparoksha jnanam is achieved and the a-prateetih of mUla
ajnana in samadhi (where no ajnana nAsha has happened) which is only a
potential state; the prateetih thereof in the no-samadhi states.

On Mon, Oct 16, 2023 at 12:34 PM Sudhanshu Shekhar <sudhanshu.iitk at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Namaste V Subramanian ji.
>
> Many thanks for the patient reply.
>
> //They are the same.//
>
> I am unable to understand as to how can mUlAvidyA be absent in samAdhi? It
> cannot vanish in thin air. Like mind merges in avidyA in sushupti and comes
> back in waking, it should merge into something, if it were to come back
> post-samAdhi.
>
> Since leshAvidyA continues even after culmination of akhandAkArA-vritti,
> can it be said that the absence of tattva-agrahaNa-rUpA-avidyA in samAdhi
> is basically merger thereof in leshAvidyA?
>
> //Tattva agrahana rupa avidya is not there since the akhandAkAra vritti is
> accepted. This is AtmA/BrahmakAra vritti.In its presence 'I do not know the
> Self' kind of ignorance can't coexist. That is the purport of the
> Panchadashi verse and the commentary.//
>
> True. But being the fundamental entity, it cannot spring back from
> non-existence. Can it?
>
> //The causal seed is not completely destroyed in the case of the need for
> more akhandAkAra vritti sessions. Such a situation is admitted by Shankara
> in the BSB 4.1.2:
>
> यस्य तु न एषोऽनुभवो द्रागिव जायते, तं प्रति अनुभवार्थ एव
> आवृत्त्यभ्युपगमः । तत्रापि न तत्त्वमसिवाक्यार्थात् प्रच्याव्य आवृत्तौ
> प्रवर्तयेत् ।  For such of those aspirants such an experience has not
> occurred instantaneously, the need for reiteration is required for
> generating that experience...//
>
> Yes. I am talking of this situation only. If causal seed (other than
> leshAvidyA which is destroyed only on death) is not destroyed, it has to
> merge somewhere and come back. Isn't it?
>
> Moreover, if mind is there in samAdhi; isn't mUlAvidyA (other than
> leshAvidyA) stands posited ipso facto!!
>
> Regards.
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 16, 2023 at 12:24 PM V Subrahmanian <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 16, 2023 at 11:33 AM Sudhanshu Shekhar <
>> sudhanshu.iitk at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Namaste V Subramanian ji.
>>>
>>> 1. Is there a difference between kAraNa sharIra and mUlAvidyA?
>>>
>>
>> Namaste.
>>
>> They are the same.
>>
>>>
>>> 2. If many sessions of nirvikalpaka samAdhi are needed for destruction
>>> of mUlAvidyA, let us talk about the initial few sessions. If
>>> tattva-agrahaNa-rUpA avidyA is not there, then how does it come back after
>>> samAdhi? It is the basic seed. It cannot merge into something and come
>>> back, like mind merges in avidyA in sushupti and comes back during waking
>>> and dream.
>>>
>>
>> Tattva agrahana rupa avidya is not there since the akhandAkAra vritti is
>> accepted. This is AtmA/BrahmakAra vritti.In its presence 'I do not know the
>> Self' kind of ignorance can't coexist. That is the purport of the
>> Panchadashi verse and the commentary.
>>
>>>
>>> 3. LeshAvidyA remains post jnAna is completely accepted. I was trying to
>>> understand about other AkArAs of mUlAvidyA. If the causal seed is not there
>>> in samAdhi, how will it come back!
>>>
>>
>> The causal seed is not completely destroyed in the case of the need for
>> more akhandAkAra vritti sessions. Such a situation is admitted by Shankara
>> in the BSB 4.1.2:
>>
>> यस्य तु न एषोऽनुभवो द्रागिव जायते, तं प्रति अनुभवार्थ एव
>> आवृत्त्यभ्युपगमः । तत्रापि न तत्त्वमसिवाक्यार्थात् प्रच्याव्य आवृत्तौ
>> प्रवर्तयेत् ।  For such of those aspirants such an experience has not
>> occurred instantaneously, the need for reiteration is required for
>> generating that experience...
>>
>> regards
>> subbu
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Regards.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Oct 16, 2023 at 10:05 AM V Subrahmanian <
>>> v.subrahmanian at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear Sudhanshu ji,
>>>>
>>>> On this //Actually, it is saying, there is no "appearance" of sushupti
>>>> (avidyA) in samAdhi and NOT "there is no sushupti (avidyA) in samAdhi".//
>>>>
>>>> We can see that the commentary, following the verses, is delineating on
>>>> the vyaavrtti - anuvritti logic. It says: तेषु परस्परं
>>>> व्यावर्त्यमानेष्वपि... this effectively is the 'absence' of the two of the
>>>> three bodies in a given state. Therefore in Samadhi the kAraNa shrira,
>>>> sleep, is not there.  But the Atman is there in all states.  As pointed out
>>>> earlier, the tattva agrahana rUpa avidyA is not there in akhandakaravritti.
>>>> That one will have to have many more such sessions in order to become a
>>>> sthita prajna is not denied. That is another matter. By definition the
>>>> samadhi as spoken of by Swami Vidyaranya in the cited verse is a situation
>>>> where that basic avidya is not there.  That the lesha avidya that is
>>>> required to bring him out of samadhi and continue in vyavahara, till death,
>>>> is admitted and you have acknowledged that as well.
>>>>
>>>> regards
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Oct 15, 2023 at 3:02 PM Sudhanshu Shekhar <
>>>> sudhanshu.iitk at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Namaste V Subramanian ji,
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for the reply.
>>>>>
>>>>> I went through the Panchadashi shloka and the tIkA thereupon.
>>>>>
>>>>> //Here he says 'In Samadhi there is no Sushupti but Atman is present.
>>>>> This is anvaya. The vyatireka is: when Atman is shining, sushupti is not
>>>>> present. //
>>>>>
>>>>> Actually, it is saying, there is no "appearance" of sushupti (avidyA)
>>>>> in samAdhi and NOT "there is no sushupti (avidyA) in samAdhi".
>>>>>
>>>>> The non-appearance of avidyA in samAdhi is well accepted. However,
>>>>> that is explained not due to absence of avidyA, but due to absence of
>>>>> avidyAkArA-avidyA-vritti. In avidyA-pratIti-vichAra of advaita-siddhi, MS
>>>>> says:-
>>>>>
>>>>> न चैवं कदाचिदविद्याया अप्रतीत्यापत्तिः; इष्टापत्तेः, समाधौ
>>>>> तथाभ्युपगमात् ।
>>>>>
>>>>> Is there any clear articulation anywhere that avidyA is not present
>>>>> during samAdhi. Because if avidyA is not present during samAdhi, then one
>>>>> will not be able to wake up from samAdhi.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> //Since it is admitted that the Tattva agrahana rupa avidya is present
>>>>> in all three states, in Samadhi when Akhandakara vritti is there, that
>>>>> avidya is not present. The Ramakrishna Teeka for the above verse where he
>>>>> says 'ajnana is not there in samadhi', can be seen here:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://archive.org/details/panchadashi-ramkrishna/page/n57/mode/2up//
>>>>>
>>>>> Does attaining nirvikalpaka-samAdhi once leads to destruction of
>>>>> avidyA?
>>>>>
>>>>> //Of course, the mind, which is the instrument for even attaining
>>>>> Samadhi, has to be admitted to be present. Also, the nascent form of
>>>>> avidya/mind are admitted to be present even during samadhi, since they have
>>>>> not destroyed so that the post-samadhi life of the Jnani requires this
>>>>> non-binding form (lesha/vasana) of avidya is the one that sustains the
>>>>> body-mind of the Jnani till the fall of the body.//
>>>>>
>>>>> This is well understood.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Additional Commissioner of Income-tax,
>>> Pune
>>>
>>> sudhanshushekhar.wordpress.com
>>>
>>
>
> --
> Additional Commissioner of Income-tax,
> Pune
>
> sudhanshushekhar.wordpress.com
>