[Advaita-l] avidyA and mind in samAdhi

[Sudhanshu Shekhar]

//The answer to all questions lies in the Panchadashi and commentary, as I
see it.//

Certainly. I will go through it more carefully.

 //and the a-prateetih of mUla ajnana in samadhi (where no ajnana nAsha has
happened) which is only a potential state;//

Yes. This is the matter of discussion. When there is no ajnAna-nAsha in
samAdhi; there is non-perception of ajnAna == can it be said that ajnAna is
not there?

That there is absence of perception of ajnAna in samAdhi is accepted. MS
says also - there is absence of avidyAkArA-avidyA-vritti.

But this absence of perception of avidyA does not imply absence of avidyA.
Had this been so, instead of saying that there is absence of
avidyAkArA-avidyA-vritti in samAdhi, it would have been said -- how can you
perceive avidyA in samAdhi when the object avidyA itself is not there.

Regards.

On Mon, Oct 16, 2023 at 12:46 PM V Subrahmanian <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Dear Sudhanshu ji,
>
> The answer to all questions lies in the Panchadashi and commentary, as I
> see it. It addresses both the situations: mUlavidyA naAsha, in case of the
> samadhi where aparoksha jnanam is achieved and the a-prateetih of mUla
> ajnana in samadhi (where no ajnana nAsha has happened) which is only a
> potential state; the prateetih thereof in the no-samadhi states.
>
> On Mon, Oct 16, 2023 at 12:34 PM Sudhanshu Shekhar <
> sudhanshu.iitk at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Namaste V Subramanian ji.
>>
>> Many thanks for the patient reply.
>>
>> //They are the same.//
>>
>> I am unable to understand as to how can mUlAvidyA be absent in samAdhi?
>> It cannot vanish in thin air. Like mind merges in avidyA in sushupti and
>> comes back in waking, it should merge into something, if it were to come
>> back post-samAdhi.
>>
>> Since leshAvidyA continues even after culmination of akhandAkArA-vritti,
>> can it be said that the absence of tattva-agrahaNa-rUpA-avidyA in samAdhi
>> is basically merger thereof in leshAvidyA?
>>
>> //Tattva agrahana rupa avidya is not there since the akhandAkAra vritti
>> is accepted. This is AtmA/BrahmakAra vritti.In its presence 'I do not know
>> the Self' kind of ignorance can't coexist. That is the purport of the
>> Panchadashi verse and the commentary.//
>>
>> True. But being the fundamental entity, it cannot spring back from
>> non-existence. Can it?
>>
>> //The causal seed is not completely destroyed in the case of the need for
>> more akhandAkAra vritti sessions. Such a situation is admitted by Shankara
>> in the BSB 4.1.2:
>>
>> यस्य तु न एषोऽनुभवो द्रागिव जायते, तं प्रति अनुभवार्थ एव
>> आवृत्त्यभ्युपगमः । तत्रापि न तत्त्वमसिवाक्यार्थात् प्रच्याव्य आवृत्तौ
>> प्रवर्तयेत् ।  For such of those aspirants such an experience has not
>> occurred instantaneously, the need for reiteration is required for
>> generating that experience...//
>>
>> Yes. I am talking of this situation only. If causal seed (other than
>> leshAvidyA which is destroyed only on death) is not destroyed, it has to
>> merge somewhere and come back. Isn't it?
>>
>> Moreover, if mind is there in samAdhi; isn't mUlAvidyA (other than
>> leshAvidyA) stands posited ipso facto!!
>>
>> Regards.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 16, 2023 at 12:24 PM V Subrahmanian <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Oct 16, 2023 at 11:33 AM Sudhanshu Shekhar <
>>> sudhanshu.iitk at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Namaste V Subramanian ji.
>>>>
>>>> 1. Is there a difference between kAraNa sharIra and mUlAvidyA?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Namaste.
>>>
>>> They are the same.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2. If many sessions of nirvikalpaka samAdhi are needed for destruction
>>>> of mUlAvidyA, let us talk about the initial few sessions. If
>>>> tattva-agrahaNa-rUpA avidyA is not there, then how does it come back after
>>>> samAdhi? It is the basic seed. It cannot merge into something and come
>>>> back, like mind merges in avidyA in sushupti and comes back during waking
>>>> and dream.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Tattva agrahana rupa avidya is not there since the akhandAkAra vritti is
>>> accepted. This is AtmA/BrahmakAra vritti.In its presence 'I do not know the
>>> Self' kind of ignorance can't coexist. That is the purport of the
>>> Panchadashi verse and the commentary.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> 3. LeshAvidyA remains post jnAna is completely accepted. I was trying
>>>> to understand about other AkArAs of mUlAvidyA. If the causal seed is not
>>>> there in samAdhi, how will it come back!
>>>>
>>>
>>> The causal seed is not completely destroyed in the case of the need for
>>> more akhandAkAra vritti sessions. Such a situation is admitted by Shankara
>>> in the BSB 4.1.2:
>>>
>>> यस्य तु न एषोऽनुभवो द्रागिव जायते, तं प्रति अनुभवार्थ एव
>>> आवृत्त्यभ्युपगमः । तत्रापि न तत्त्वमसिवाक्यार्थात् प्रच्याव्य आवृत्तौ
>>> प्रवर्तयेत् ।  For such of those aspirants such an experience has not
>>> occurred instantaneously, the need for reiteration is required for
>>> generating that experience...
>>>
>>> regards
>>> subbu
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards.
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Oct 16, 2023 at 10:05 AM V Subrahmanian <
>>>> v.subrahmanian at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Dear Sudhanshu ji,
>>>>>
>>>>> On this //Actually, it is saying, there is no "appearance" of sushupti
>>>>> (avidyA) in samAdhi and NOT "there is no sushupti (avidyA) in samAdhi".//
>>>>>
>>>>> We can see that the commentary, following the verses, is delineating
>>>>> on the vyaavrtti - anuvritti logic. It says: तेषु परस्परं
>>>>> व्यावर्त्यमानेष्वपि... this effectively is the 'absence' of the two of the
>>>>> three bodies in a given state. Therefore in Samadhi the kAraNa shrira,
>>>>> sleep, is not there.  But the Atman is there in all states.  As pointed out
>>>>> earlier, the tattva agrahana rUpa avidyA is not there in akhandakaravritti.
>>>>> That one will have to have many more such sessions in order to become a
>>>>> sthita prajna is not denied. That is another matter. By definition the
>>>>> samadhi as spoken of by Swami Vidyaranya in the cited verse is a situation
>>>>> where that basic avidya is not there.  That the lesha avidya that is
>>>>> required to bring him out of samadhi and continue in vyavahara, till death,
>>>>> is admitted and you have acknowledged that as well.
>>>>>
>>>>> regards
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Oct 15, 2023 at 3:02 PM Sudhanshu Shekhar <
>>>>> sudhanshu.iitk at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Namaste V Subramanian ji,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks for the reply.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I went through the Panchadashi shloka and the tIkA thereupon.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> //Here he says 'In Samadhi there is no Sushupti but Atman is present.
>>>>>> This is anvaya. The vyatireka is: when Atman is shining, sushupti is not
>>>>>> present. //
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Actually, it is saying, there is no "appearance" of sushupti (avidyA)
>>>>>> in samAdhi and NOT "there is no sushupti (avidyA) in samAdhi".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The non-appearance of avidyA in samAdhi is well accepted. However,
>>>>>> that is explained not due to absence of avidyA, but due to absence of
>>>>>> avidyAkArA-avidyA-vritti. In avidyA-pratIti-vichAra of advaita-siddhi, MS
>>>>>> says:-
>>>>>>
>>>>>> न चैवं कदाचिदविद्याया अप्रतीत्यापत्तिः; इष्टापत्तेः, समाधौ
>>>>>> तथाभ्युपगमात् ।
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is there any clear articulation anywhere that avidyA is not present
>>>>>> during samAdhi. Because if avidyA is not present during samAdhi, then one
>>>>>> will not be able to wake up from samAdhi.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> //Since it is admitted that the Tattva agrahana rupa avidya is
>>>>>> present in all three states, in Samadhi when Akhandakara vritti is there,
>>>>>> that avidya is not present. The Ramakrishna Teeka for the above verse where
>>>>>> he says 'ajnana is not there in samadhi', can be seen here:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://archive.org/details/panchadashi-ramkrishna/page/n57/mode/2up//
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Does attaining nirvikalpaka-samAdhi once leads to destruction of
>>>>>> avidyA?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> //Of course, the mind, which is the instrument for even attaining
>>>>>> Samadhi, has to be admitted to be present. Also, the nascent form of
>>>>>> avidya/mind are admitted to be present even during samadhi, since they have
>>>>>> not destroyed so that the post-samadhi life of the Jnani requires this
>>>>>> non-binding form (lesha/vasana) of avidya is the one that sustains the
>>>>>> body-mind of the Jnani till the fall of the body.//
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is well understood.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Additional Commissioner of Income-tax,
>>>> Pune
>>>>
>>>> sudhanshushekhar.wordpress.com
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Additional Commissioner of Income-tax,
>> Pune
>>
>> sudhanshushekhar.wordpress.com
>>
>

-- 
Additional Commissioner of Income-tax,
Pune

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