[Advaita-l] [advaitin] A smart inference by Shankara

[Ananta Chaitanya [Sarasvati]]

Namaste Raghavji,

We have to first understand what the vyAkhyAnas are saying, instead of
starting with the negative approach that everything other than bhAShya is
wrong! It is really funny to read how you presented the akShepa that later
vyAkhyAnakAras "don't understand" this or that in the bhAShya, let alone
Vedanta 101 of AA! It has nothing to do with the svarUpa of avidyA at all!
Even DSV accommodates AA well by starting and staying with apavAda,
discounting all sorts of adhyAropa with svapna dRShTAnta. That is why DSV
is the main prakriyA in siddhAnta since it never lets go of the
shruti-tAtparya.

Those who hold on to only one prakriyA thinking that it is all that bhAShya
says, are completely blind to the power of bhAShya; bhAShya is
sUtrasthAnIya at so many places! They have no clue why bhAShya/bhAshyakAra
is called as prasannagambhIra. They misunderstand and mix-up SDV, DSV, SKV,
AKV, AV, AJV, EJV with my way or the highway attitude. They have no
definitions to offer, so there is no common agreeable ground to discuss,
and then, there is thorough confusion in understanding what the followers
of various vyAkhyAnas are saying, let alone what the vyAkhyAnas themselves
say. They run around in circles repeating the same thing again and again,
no matter what the thread is about or regardless of the particular point
being made.

I am in awe of the patience that Subbuji, Sudhanshuji and yourself have to
tirelessly try to have a meaningful dialog with such opponents.

gurupAdukAbhyAm,
--Ananta Chaitanya
/* येनेदं सर्वं विजानाति, तं केन विजानीयात्। Through what should one know
That, owing to which all this is known! [Br.Up. 4.5.15] */



On Wed, Aug 14, 2024, 8:54 AM Raghav Kumar Dwivedula via Advaita-l <
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

> Namaste Sudhanshu Ji
> Sri SSS ji and followers of abhAva-vAda do not accept DSV, EJV etc., as
> being  in line with bhAShya. They regard these as asAdhu prakriyas which
> have serious problems - they don't land on to Advaita . They assert only
> one prakriya is there viz , adhyAropa apavAda. So even the word 'SDV' is
> redundant for them.
>
> If you recollect an earlier message, Prashant Netiji felt that you seemed
> unfamiliar with AA as the prakriyA involved, which I felt could be due to
> inadequate communication reaching him, due to the innumerable posts and
> many threads etc. This is quite understandable.
>
> My understanding is that all who assert bhAvarUpatvaM of course agree that
> AA is the method, but within that ambit, DSV is also possible.
>
> The main thrust of abhAva-vAda is that if we assert bhAvarUpA avidyA, that
> takes away from the idea of the entire teaching being only a prakriyA, a
> method, to help us land on Advaita. AA should be understood as a
> pedagogical tool rather than some metaphysical theory to explain how
> Brahman became jagat through a bhAvarUpA avidyA, as is ostensibly the case
> with the bhAvarUpA idea.
>
> My take is that - it's naive to think those acharyas who assert bhAvarUpA
> avidyA do not understand that AA is indeed the underlying method or that
> they are trying to foist a metaphysical theory upon bhAShya which gives a
> substantial ontological status to avidyA rendering it non-negatable.
>
> Sure there can be discussion about this - whether avidyA is getting some
> kind of "promotion" thereby. But to say AA is not understood by later
> Acharyas who are thereby propounding a dualistic metaphysics, is an unwise
> assertion.
>
> Om
>
>
>
> On Wed, 14 Aug, 2024, 8:24 am Sudhanshu Shekhar via Advaita-l, <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>
> > Namaste Michael ji.
> >
> > Both (followers of) SSS ji and Manjushree Hegde ji should first clarify
> as
> > to which prakriyA they are talking about. Whether it is SDV, DSV, ajAti,
> > eka-jIva-vAda, aneka-jIva-vAda, sattA-dvaividhya-vAda,
> > sattA-traividhya-vAda, eka-sattA-vAda etc? We have different theories for
> > different models catering to different adhikArIs. This is mentioned by
> > BhAshyakAra in MANDUkya -  यापि बुद्धैः अद्वैतवादिभिः जातिः देशिता
> > उपदिष्टा, उपलम्भनमुपलम्भः, तस्मात् उपलब्धेरित्यर्थः । समाचारात्
> > वर्णाश्रमादिधर्मसमाचरणाच्च ताभ्यां हेतुभ्याम् अस्तिवस्तुत्ववादिनाम् अस्ति
> > वस्तुभाव इत्येवंवदनशीलानां दृढाग्रहवतां श्रद्दधानां
> > मन्दविवेकिनामर्थोपायत्वेन सा देशिता जातिः तां गृह्णन्तु तावत् ।
> > वेदान्ताभ्यासिनां तु स्वयमेव अजाद्वयात्मविषयो विवेको भविष्यतीति ; न तु
> > परमार्थबुद्ध्या ।
> >
> > //Failing to see that the convention of the eschatological mukti is only
> a
> > concession to the Vyāvahāric view that man has a body, the Vyākhyāna
> > schools have succumbed to 18 the belief that release is really an event
> in
> > time to be attained after exhausting all karmas//
> >
> > Such statement by SSS ji attributing "failure" and "succumbing" by
> > post-Shankara AchAryAs shows his ignorance of siddhAnta as propounded in
> > sampradAya. SiddhAnta upholds ajAti as the only truth and speaks of SDV
> and
> > DSV as means to lead thereto. Jivanmukti-videhamukti is valid in SDV
> which
> > paves the way to DSV wherein jIvanmukti is treated as arthavAda. This in
> > turn leads to ajAti which is the ultimate truth.
> >
> > Failure by SSS ji in appreciating the siddhAnta as being differently
> > propounded to different aspirants depending on their adhikAritvam as
> > enunciated by BhAshyakAra has resulted in SSS ji's succumbing to usage of
> > fertile imagination to be propagated in the name of siddhAnta.
> >
> > Has SSS ji anywhere acknowledged the fact that jIvanmukti is treated as
> > arthavAda in siddhAnta? You should check it from SSS ji followers and
> must
> > come back. If he has not acknowledged it, then it speaks volumes about
> his
> > correct representation of siddhAnta as presented by later AchAryAs.
> >
> > Regards.
> > Sudhanshu Shekhar.
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