[Advaita-l] [advaitin] A smart inference by Shankara

[Sudhanshu Shekhar]

Hari Om Ananta Chaitanya ji.

//They have no definitions to offer, so there is no common agreeable ground
to discuss//

True.

//I am in awe of the patience that Subbuji, Sudhanshuji and yourself have
to tirelessly try to have a meaningful dialog with such opponents.//

In my case, it has a background. I too, once upon a time, used to
erroneously hold that avidyA is abhAva (funnily, I did not even clearly
know as to what is abhAva 🙂). Only when I went through the texts by
subsequent AchAryAs, I understood how foolish I was. I never knew of the
unimaginable depth of the arguments presented. It was a reality check for
me when I first took Advaita Siddhi in my hand. To even understand what it
was saying was a challenge.

No possible objection has been left out. Such is the unimaginable depth of
VivaraNa school texts. And, I do not hesitate to say that VivaraNa is the
zenith of human thought.

Regards.
Sudhanshu Shekhar.


On Wed, Aug 14, 2024 at 9:22 AM Ananta Chaitanya [Sarasvati] via Advaita-l <
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

> Namaste Raghavji,
>
> We have to first understand what the vyAkhyAnas are saying, instead of
> starting with the negative approach that everything other than bhAShya is
> wrong! It is really funny to read how you presented the akShepa that later
> vyAkhyAnakAras "don't understand" this or that in the bhAShya, let alone
> Vedanta 101 of AA! It has nothing to do with the svarUpa of avidyA at all!
> Even DSV accommodates AA well by starting and staying with apavAda,
> discounting all sorts of adhyAropa with svapna dRShTAnta. That is why DSV
> is the main prakriyA in siddhAnta since it never lets go of the
> shruti-tAtparya.
>
> Those who hold on to only one prakriyA thinking that it is all that bhAShya
> says, are completely blind to the power of bhAShya; bhAShya is
> sUtrasthAnIya at so many places! They have no clue why bhAShya/bhAshyakAra
> is called as prasannagambhIra. They misunderstand and mix-up SDV, DSV, SKV,
> AKV, AV, AJV, EJV with my way or the highway attitude. They have no
> definitions to offer, so there is no common agreeable ground to discuss,
> and then, there is thorough confusion in understanding what the followers
> of various vyAkhyAnas are saying, let alone what the vyAkhyAnas themselves
> say. They run around in circles repeating the same thing again and again,
> no matter what the thread is about or regardless of the particular point
> being made.
>
> I am in awe of the patience that Subbuji, Sudhanshuji and yourself have to
> tirelessly try to have a meaningful dialog with such opponents.
>
> gurupAdukAbhyAm,
> --Ananta Chaitanya
> /* येनेदं सर्वं विजानाति, तं केन विजानीयात्। Through what should one know
> That, owing to which all this is known! [Br.Up. 4.5.15] */
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 14, 2024, 8:54 AM Raghav Kumar Dwivedula via Advaita-l <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>
> > Namaste Sudhanshu Ji
> > Sri SSS ji and followers of abhAva-vAda do not accept DSV, EJV etc., as
> > being  in line with bhAShya. They regard these as asAdhu prakriyas which
> > have serious problems - they don't land on to Advaita . They assert only
> > one prakriya is there viz , adhyAropa apavAda. So even the word 'SDV' is
> > redundant for them.
> >
> > If you recollect an earlier message, Prashant Netiji felt that you seemed
> > unfamiliar with AA as the prakriyA involved, which I felt could be due to
> > inadequate communication reaching him, due to the innumerable posts and
> > many threads etc. This is quite understandable.
> >
> > My understanding is that all who assert bhAvarUpatvaM of course agree
> that
> > AA is the method, but within that ambit, DSV is also possible.
> >
> > The main thrust of abhAva-vAda is that if we assert bhAvarUpA avidyA,
> that
> > takes away from the idea of the entire teaching being only a prakriyA, a
> > method, to help us land on Advaita. AA should be understood as a
> > pedagogical tool rather than some metaphysical theory to explain how
> > Brahman became jagat through a bhAvarUpA avidyA, as is ostensibly the
> case
> > with the bhAvarUpA idea.
> >
> > My take is that - it's naive to think those acharyas who assert bhAvarUpA
> > avidyA do not understand that AA is indeed the underlying method or that
> > they are trying to foist a metaphysical theory upon bhAShya which gives a
> > substantial ontological status to avidyA rendering it non-negatable.
> >
> > Sure there can be discussion about this - whether avidyA is getting some
> > kind of "promotion" thereby. But to say AA is not understood by later
> > Acharyas who are thereby propounding a dualistic metaphysics, is an
> unwise
> > assertion.
> >
> > Om
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, 14 Aug, 2024, 8:24 am Sudhanshu Shekhar via Advaita-l, <
> > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> >
> > > Namaste Michael ji.
> > >
> > > Both (followers of) SSS ji and Manjushree Hegde ji should first clarify
> > as
> > > to which prakriyA they are talking about. Whether it is SDV, DSV,
> ajAti,
> > > eka-jIva-vAda, aneka-jIva-vAda, sattA-dvaividhya-vAda,
> > > sattA-traividhya-vAda, eka-sattA-vAda etc? We have different theories
> for
> > > different models catering to different adhikArIs. This is mentioned by
> > > BhAshyakAra in MANDUkya -  यापि बुद्धैः अद्वैतवादिभिः जातिः देशिता
> > > उपदिष्टा, उपलम्भनमुपलम्भः, तस्मात् उपलब्धेरित्यर्थः । समाचारात्
> > > वर्णाश्रमादिधर्मसमाचरणाच्च ताभ्यां हेतुभ्याम् अस्तिवस्तुत्ववादिनाम्
> अस्ति
> > > वस्तुभाव इत्येवंवदनशीलानां दृढाग्रहवतां श्रद्दधानां
> > > मन्दविवेकिनामर्थोपायत्वेन सा देशिता जातिः तां गृह्णन्तु तावत् ।
> > > वेदान्ताभ्यासिनां तु स्वयमेव अजाद्वयात्मविषयो विवेको भविष्यतीति ; न तु
> > > परमार्थबुद्ध्या ।
> > >
> > > //Failing to see that the convention of the eschatological mukti is
> only
> > a
> > > concession to the Vyāvahāric view that man has a body, the Vyākhyāna
> > > schools have succumbed to 18 the belief that release is really an event
> > in
> > > time to be attained after exhausting all karmas//
> > >
> > > Such statement by SSS ji attributing "failure" and "succumbing" by
> > > post-Shankara AchAryAs shows his ignorance of siddhAnta as propounded
> in
> > > sampradAya. SiddhAnta upholds ajAti as the only truth and speaks of SDV
> > and
> > > DSV as means to lead thereto. Jivanmukti-videhamukti is valid in SDV
> > which
> > > paves the way to DSV wherein jIvanmukti is treated as arthavAda. This
> in
> > > turn leads to ajAti which is the ultimate truth.
> > >
> > > Failure by SSS ji in appreciating the siddhAnta as being differently
> > > propounded to different aspirants depending on their adhikAritvam as
> > > enunciated by BhAshyakAra has resulted in SSS ji's succumbing to usage
> of
> > > fertile imagination to be propagated in the name of siddhAnta.
> > >
> > > Has SSS ji anywhere acknowledged the fact that jIvanmukti is treated as
> > > arthavAda in siddhAnta? You should check it from SSS ji followers and
> > must
> > > come back. If he has not acknowledged it, then it speaks volumes about
> > his
> > > correct representation of siddhAnta as presented by later AchAryAs.
> > >
> > > Regards.
> > > Sudhanshu Shekhar.
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Archives: https://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe or change your options:
> > > https://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l
> > >
> > > For assistance, contact:
> > > listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Archives: https://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
> >
> > To unsubscribe or change your options:
> > https://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l
> >
> > For assistance, contact:
> > listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Archives: https://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
>
> To unsubscribe or change your options:
> https://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l
>
> For assistance, contact:
> listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org
>


-- 
Additional Commissioner of Income-tax,
Pune

sudhanshushekhar.wordpress.com