[Advaita-l] [advaitin] Re: pratiyogI-jnAna being mandatory for abhAva-jnAna

[Sudhanshu Shekhar]

Namaste Venkat ji.

Yes. That is quite obvious.

That is why, even if a single person in the society is a foreigner, the
person won't able to aver EskIno-abhAva.

A similar example someone else quoted -- I don't know Russian language.
Yet, when there is a newspaper before me in English, I say, there is
Ruassian-abhAva in this newspaper. So, there is violation of requirement of
pratiyogI-jnAna as I knew Ruasian-abhAva-jnAna despite not having
Russian-jnAna.

Here also same mistake. He knows that Russian is a language and that
language is different from English. That is, he has
English-language-bhinnatva-vat-Russian-jnAna.

Based on this knowledge, by seeing an English newspaper, he says - there is
Russian-abhAva here. But, this is
Russian-nishTha-English-bhAshA-bhinnatva-avachchinna-pratiyogitA-nirUpita-abhAva
wherein the pratiyogI is English-bhAshA-bhinnatva-vat-Russian. And he has
pretty much this knowledge.

In a nutshell, not appreciating the concept of pratiyogitA-avachchhedaka,
SSS ji and his followers made this fundamental error which resulted in
completely wrong foundation of their theory.

Regards
Sudhanshu Shekhar.

On Tue, 20 Aug, 2024, 22:18 Venkatraghavan S, <agnimile at gmail.com> wrote:

> Namaste Sudhanshu Ji / Ananta Chaitanya ji,
>
> One argument that SSS ji appears to be making is that by knowing the
> sAmAnya (videshIyAh) one can know sAmAnya-abhAva (videshIya abhAva) and by
> knowledge of sAmAnya abhAva, one can have knowledge of visheSha abhAva
> (eskimo abhAva) also.
>
> However, here too there is a problem for him. To make such an argument,
> the knower has to possess the knowledge that Eskimo is a type of videshi -
> without such a knowledge, one cannot claim that eskimo, a visheSha, is a
> subset of the sAmAnya, a videshI. Thus, unless one has this eskimo jnAna
> (that E is a subset of V), the videshIya abhAva jnAna is not sufficient to
> claim knowledge of eskimo abhAva. We come back to abhAva jnAna requiring
> pratiyogi jnAna.
>
> One may say I have such a sAmAnya jnAna of the visheSha (ie, that an
> Eskimo is a videshI) but I don't have visheSha knowledge of the visheSha
> (what kind of videshI is an eskimo), but such a visheSha's abhAva (an
> Eskimo, who is denoted by such and such characteristics, is absent) is not
> the object of the jnAna of eskimo abhAva gleaned from knowledge of the
> videshI abhAva - coming back to the pratiyogitAvacChedaka being
> videshIyatva, not eskimotva.
>
> Kind regards,
> Venkatraghavan
>
> On Tue, 20 Aug 2024, 20:07 Sudhanshu Shekhar, <sudhanshu.iitk at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Namaste Venkat ji.
>>
>> 2) And one has knowledge of videshiyatA because he has knowledge of *its*
>>> pratiyogi, kArNATakIyatva.
>>>
>>
>> Very nice point.
>>
>>
>>> If the pratiyogitAvacChedaka  of the abhAva jnAna had been eskimotvam,
>>> then one can argue that one can argue that it is possible for one to have
>>> ekimo abhAva jnAna without eskimo jnAna.
>>>
>>
>> Absolutely. And since he does not
>> eskimo-tva-avachchhinna-pratiyogitA-nirUpita-jnAna, if there is even one
>> foreigner in the society, the person would not be able to have
>> eskimo-abhAva-jnAna. He does not know the eskimo as an eskimo, he knows the
>> eskimo as a foreigner.
>>
>> Namaste Ananta Chaitanya ji.
>>
>> //It appears to me that that the person has no visheShAbhavajnAna here at
>> all.//
>>
>> I think vishesha-abhAva-jnAna is pretty much there and pratiyogI-jnAna is
>> also there. Only thing, the pratiyogitA-avachchhedaka is different. While
>> the pratiyogitA-avachchhedaka is videshIyatva i.e. kArnaTika-bhinnatva, SSS
>> ji has confused it to be Eskimo-tva.
>>
>> //He only knows tadbhedakUTAbhAva or
>> kArNATakIya-bhinnatva-avachChinna-pratiyogitAka-abhAva.//
>>
>> True.
>>
>> Regards.
>>
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