[Advaita-l] While jiva is avidya-kruta adhyaropa, Ishwara is shaastra-kruta adhyaropa

[Krishna Kashyap]

thanks to Subrahmanian Ji and Raghav Kumar Ji for clarification.



*Best Regards,*

*Krishna Kashyap*




On Mon, Dec 2, 2024 at 4:31 PM Raghav Kumar Dwivedula via Advaita-l <
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

> Kindly read "upAsana" for my word upAdana. My bad.
>
> On Mon, 2 Dec, 2024, 4:29 pm Raghav Kumar Dwivedula, <
> raghavkumar00 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Namaste Subbu ji
> > It's clear that only someone who has taken formal sannyasa ie the
> monastic
> > lifestyle with no pursuit of a wealth etc., is eligible for the exclusive
> > pursuit of jnAna yoga.
> >
> > For a person engaged in jnAna yoga as pursuit (ie shravaNam, mananaM and
> > even nididhyAsanam llfor that matter) bhakti and upasana of Ishvara
> > continues and there is no conflict at all in doing japaM etc and vedAnta
> > sadhanas. There is no injunction to cease japaM etc upon making some
> > headway in vedAnta. Only kartRtva-mithyAtvaM is to be understood and
> > embodied in one's life.
> >
> > Even for a vividiShA sannyAsI, bhakti for Ishvara and karmas like seva of
> > the guru continue.
> >
> > It's only the pursuit of celibacy,  renunciation of wealth-seeking
> > pursuits and rituals for specific kAmya phalas that are meant when we
> talk
> > of "renunciation of karmas."
> >
> > I do sometimes notice a funny trend of students of vedAnta drop all nitya
> > karmas and even japaM in a misplaced zeal for "renunciation of karma".
> >
> > The conduct and attitude of Sri Shankara bhagavatpada and the later
> > Shankaracharyas is a resounding endorsement of Ishvara bhakti (upAdana,
> > japa etc) as being wholly complementary and facilitative for the pursuit
> of
> > Self-knowledge by Vedanta sadhanam.
> >
> >
> > Om
> >
> > Raghav
> >
> >
> > Om
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, 2 Dec, 2024, 1:40 pm V Subrahmanian via Advaita-l, <
> > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> >
> >> On Mon, Dec 2, 2024 at 1:17 PM Krishna Kashyap <kkashyap2011 at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> > namaste Subrahmanian Ji,
> >> > thanks for the timely email. We were discussing this same issue in my
> >> > class on Kena Upanishad (shankara bhashya) last week.
> >> >
> >> > Please explain some other issues that surfaced:
> >> >
> >> > 1) Karma yoga and bhakti are possible only
> >> > towards Ishwara. If so, a person ready for jnana yoga must not do
> karma
> >> > or bhakti yoga. Please give a clear view of what kind of person can
> >> give up
> >> > karma and bhakti yoga. Please provide some clear support using
> prasthana
> >> > traya bhashya of Shankaracharya.
> >> > phrasing this question with regards to any one of us: How will I know
> >> that
> >> > I am not fit to do any karma? I should focus only on Jnana yoga?
> >> >
> >>
> >> Namaste
> >>
> >> The one ready for Jnana yoga, on the basis of the BG 6th chapter, would
> >> have renounced karma.
> >>
> >> आरुरुक्षोर्मुनेर्योगं कर्म कारणमुच्यते ।
> >> योगारूढस्य तस्यैव शमः कारणमुच्यते ॥ ३ ॥
> >>
> >> The Bhashyam gives clarification on questions that arise in us:
> >>
> >> आरुरुक्षोः आरोढुमिच्छतः, अनारूढस्य, ध्यानयोगे
> अवस्थातुमशक्तस्यैवेत्यर्थः ।
> >> कस्य तस्य आरुरुक्षोः ? मुनेः, कर्मफलसंन्यासिन इत्यर्थः । किमारुरुक्षोः ?
> >> योगम् । कर्म कारणं साधनम् उच्यते । योगारूढस्य पुनः तस्यैव शमः उपशमः
> >> सर्वकर्मभ्यो निवृत्तिः कारणं योगारूढस्य साधनम् उच्यते इत्यर्थः ।
> >> यावद्यावत्
> >> कर्मभ्यः उपरमते, तावत्तावत् निरायासस्य जितेन्द्रियस्य चित्तं समाधीयते ।
> >> तथा
> >> सति स झटिति योगारूढो भवति । तथा चोक्तं व्यासेन — ‘नैतादृशं
> >> ब्राह्मणस्यास्ति
> >> वित्तं यथैकता समता सत्यता च । शीलं स्थितिर्दण्डनिधानमार्जवं
> ततस्ततश्चोपरमः
> >> क्रियाभ्यः’ (मो. ध. १७५ । ३७) इति ॥ ३ ॥
> >>
> >> For the one intending to ascend Jnana (dhyana nididhyanasanam), karma is
> >> the path: produces chitta shuddhi/ekaagrataa.  For this very person who
> >> has
> >> ascended to Yoga, karma, action, is not there.
> >>
> >> Bhakti is not to be given up.  Only that there will be more emphasis on
> >> Nirguna Brahma bhakti that is dhyanam, upanishadic vichara.
> >>
> >> Ideally one is endowed with a Guru, marga darshaka.  He will advise the
> >> aspirant on when he is to give up karma, when he is to engage in more
> >> focused nirguna dhyana, vichara.
> >>
> >> Here also we get inputs from Shankara's Bh.gita 2.20 Bhashya on the
> above
> >> topic:
> >>
> >>  स च अविद्वान् , ‘उभौ तौ न विजानीतः’ (भ. गी. २ । १९)
> >> <
> >>
> https://advaitasharada.sringeri.net/display/bhashya/Gita/devanagari?page=2&id=BG_C02_V19&hl=%E0%A4%89%E0%A4%AD%E0%A5%8C%20%E0%A4%A4%E0%A5%8C%20%E0%A4%A8%20%E0%A4%B5%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%9C%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%A8%E0%A5%80%E0%A4%A4%E0%A4%83
> >> >
> >> इति
> >> वचनात् , विशेषितस्य च विदुषः कर्माक्षेपवचनाच्च ‘कथं स पुरुषः’ इति ।
> >> तस्मात्
> >> विशेषितस्य अविक्रियात्मदर्शिनः विदुषः मुमुक्षोश्च सर्वकर्मसंन्यासे एव
> >> अधिकारः । अत एव भगवान् नारायणः साङ्ख्यान् विदुषः अविदुषश्च कर्मिणः
> >> प्रविभज्य द्वे निष्ठे ग्राहयति — ‘ज्ञानयोगेन साङ्‍ख्यानां कर्मयोगेन
> >> योगिनाम्’ (भ. गी. ३ । ३)
> >> <
> >>
> https://advaitasharada.sringeri.net/display/bhashya/Gita/devanagari?page=3&id=BG_C03_V03&hl=%E0%A4%9C%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%9E%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%A8%E0%A4%AF%E0%A5%8B%E0%A4%97%E0%A5%87%E0%A4%A8%20%E0%A4%B8%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%99%E0%A5%8D%E2%80%8D%E0%A4%96%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%AF%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%A8%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%82%20%E0%A4%95%E0%A4%B0%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%AE%E0%A4%AF%E0%A5%8B%E0%A4%97%E0%A5%87%E0%A4%A8%20%E0%A4%AF%E0%A5%8B%E0%A4%97%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%A8%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%AE%E0%A5%8D
> >> >
> >> इति ।
> >> तथा च पुत्राय आह भगवान् व्यासः — ‘द्वाविमावथ पन्थानौ’ (शां. २४१ । ६)
> >> इत्यादि । तथा च क्रियापथश्चैव पुरस्तात् पश्चात्संन्यासश्चेति । एतमेव
> >> विभागं
> >> पुनः पुनर्दर्शयिष्यति भगवान् — अतत्त्ववित् ‘अहङ्कारविमूढात्मा कर्ताहमिति
> >> मन्यते’ (भ. गी. ३ । २७)
> >> <
> >>
> https://advaitasharada.sringeri.net/display/bhashya/Gita/devanagari?page=3&id=BG_C03_V27&hl=%E0%A4%85%E0%A4%B9%E0%A4%99%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%95%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%B0%E0%A4%B5%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%AE%E0%A5%82%E0%A4%A2%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%A4%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%AE%E0%A4%BE%20%E0%A4%95%E0%A4%B0%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%A4%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%B9%E0%A4%AE%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%A4%E0%A4%BF%20%E0%A4%AE%E0%A4%A8%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%AF%E0%A4%A4%E0%A5%87
> >> >,
> >> तत्त्ववित्तु नाहं करोमि इति । तथा च ‘सर्वकर्माणि मनसा संन्यस्यास्ते’ (भ.
> >> गी. ५ । १३)
> >> <
> >>
> https://advaitasharada.sringeri.net/display/bhashya/Gita/devanagari?page=5&id=BG_C05_V13&hl=%E0%A4%B8%E0%A4%B0%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%B5%E0%A4%95%E0%A4%B0%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%AE%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%A3%E0%A4%BF%20%E0%A4%AE%E0%A4%A8%E0%A4%B8%E0%A4%BE%20%E0%A4%B8%E0%A4%82%E0%A4%A8%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%AF%E0%A4%B8%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%AF%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%B8%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%A4%E0%A5%87
> >> >
> >> इत्यादि
> >> ॥
> >>
> >> The one who has the vision of the Atman/Brahman, there is no karma.  For
> >> him karma sannyasa is the way.
> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > *Best Regards,*
> >> >
> >> > *Krishna Kashyap*
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Mon, Dec 2, 2024 at 11:11 AM V Subrahmanian via Advaita-l <
> >> > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> In Advaita, the jiva is a product of avidya and Ishwara is a product
> of
> >> >> Maya.
> >> >> कार्यकारणोपाधिभेदाज्जीवेश्वरभेदोऽपि दृश्यते । Tripaadvibhuti
> >> >> Mahanarayanopanishat.
> >> >> कार्योपाधिरयं जीवः कारणोपाधिरीश्वरः । Shuka rahasya upanishat.
> >> >>
> >> >> Here kaarya means the body mind complex, the effect of the
> Trigunatmika
> >> >> maayaa. And kAraNa refers to mAya/prakriti.  With body-mind complex
> as
> >> >> Upadhi, the Pure consciousness Brahman, appears as the jiva.  With
> >> Maya as
> >> >> upAdhi, the same Pure Consciousness Brahman appears as Ishwara.
> >> >>
> >> >> While both are aupadhika, it is to be noted that the body-mind
> complex
> >> >> identity is due to avidya and jivabhAva is thus a product of
> ignorance.
> >> >> However, the Ishwara part is not to be seen so.  It is the Vedanta
> >> shAstra
> >> >> that posits the concept of Ishwara with a view to help the jiva to
> >> evolve
> >> >> gradually and realize the truth of its own true nature, Brahman. By
> >> >> relating to that power called Ishwara, the jiva becomes pure in mind
> >> and
> >> >> qualifies to know the Truth. Karma yoga and bhakti are possible only
> >> >> towards Ishwara. All the Puranas and Itihasas and agamas talk about
> the
> >> >> glory of Ishwara.  All this is an adhyAropa, deliberate positing, by
> >> the
> >> >> shAstra.  The apavAda, negation, is done by the shAstra by point out
> >> that
> >> >> the created world, including the body mind complex, is a product of
> >> pancha
> >> >> bhutas, which, in turn are the products of mUla prakriti.  Thereby
> the
> >> >> shAstra posit the concept of mUla prakriti, mAyA, too. And thereby
> >> >> 'create'
> >> >> the concept of Ishwara.
> >> >>
> >> >> A careful study of the Upanishads, the Bhagavatam, etc. along with
> the
> >> >> Shankara and Sridhara Swamin's bhashya, etc. will reveal the above
> >> truth
> >> >> of
> >> >> the jiva and Ishwara being aupAdhika.
> >> >>
> >> >> warm regards
> >> >> subbu
> >> >> _______________________________________________
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