[Advaita-l] ***UNCHECKED*** Re: [advaitin] Understanding Srimad Bhagavad Gita from the perspectives of Visishtadvaita and Advaita - an exposition

[V Subrahmanian]

Dear Suresh ji,

Thanks for your nice words. The Vaishnava concept of jiva being of aNu size
is what comes in the way of a desired reconciliation.

Yes, if esoteric meaning is preferred to literal one, then there can be a
lot of reconciliation. But the question is how many are ready to do that.

Warm regards
subbu

On Sun, 28 Jan 2024, 4:17 am suresh srinivasamurthy, <sureshsmr at hotmail.com>
wrote:

> Namaste Sri Subbu-ji,
>
> <
> The liberated do not travel to any other place/loka, for any such travel
> will imply that the jiva is still in samsara. Since Brahman is infinite,
> the jnani who has realized his identity with Brahman, also being the
> Infinite Brahman alone, does not go anywhere upon death.  For, Brahman is
> not a finite place to be reached/attained.  If Brahman were located in a
> place then Brahman, being no different from any formed object, will have to
> have a beginning and end, and be dependent on something else, be made of
> parts, and ephemeral, and a produced one.  Brahman can never be of this
> nature.  Thus, the ‘attainment’ of Brahman cannot be involving any locating
> in some other place.
>
> The position of the VA on this matter cannot be compromised. Hence on this
> crucial issue there can't be a reconciliation between the two systems.
> >
>
> Personally, I agree with Vikram-ji and think that reconciliation is
> possible and infact it is already there though it is not openly accepted by
> staunch followers :)
>
> This is because Brahman is accepted as the Self in VA also which is all
> pervading and so not limited to any particular place. Vishnu is accepted as
> jnAnamaya and antaryAmi Atma (Self) and oneness among all the infinite
> forms of Vishnu is accepted in Dvaita also. In all traditions, Brahman is
> always the indwelling sarvAtma / paramAtma (universal Self) and is never
> anAtma. Existence of jagat as Brahma shareera is acceptable to Sri
> Shankara as per the Prashnopanishad 6-8 bhashya and Jagatshareeratva of
> Brahman does not limit the infinite nature of Brahman and helps to
> establish sanatanatva of dharma and guru-shishya parampara which is common
> across all sampradaya. Sri Ramanuja also accepts validity of moksha in the
> form of kaivalya.
>
> Though "going to Vaikunta" loka and serving the Lord is widely accepted in
> VA, there is another level of realization where the Lord alone is seen and
> nothing else. Vaikunta is also the name of the Lord and so the "travel"
> of mukta jiva to attain the Lord is not physical but an inward "spiritual
> journey" which could be interpreted as constant experience/darshan of the
> Lord in such a way that nothing else is seen. Sri TiruppAnAlvar describes
> this in his AmalanAdipiran prabandham as "Yennamudinai kanda kangal
> mattondrun kAnAve". ( Having seen my beloved Lord my eyes are not seeing
> anything ). Though this is not the same as Advaitic realization it is still
> very close.
>
> Brahman is accepted as the paramAtma / SarvAtma in all sampradAya and
> shareerAtma bheda between jagat and Brahman/Self is also very experiential.
> So, I would consider that as a common ground that essentially reconciles
> all traditional views. IMHO all different traditions compliment each other
> and helps to experience Truth/Brahman in different ways. All differences
> are only superficial.
>
> Namaste,
> Suresh
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* advaitin at googlegroups.com <advaitin at googlegroups.com> on behalf
> of V Subrahmanian <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Friday, January 26, 2024 7:55 AM
> *To:* advaitin at googlegroups.com <advaitin at googlegroups.com>
> *Cc:* A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [Advaita-l] ***UNCHECKED*** Re: [advaitin] Understanding
> Srimad Bhagavad Gita from the perspectives of Visishtadvaita and Advaita -
> an exposition
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 26, 2024 at 12:27 PM Vikram Jagannathan <vikkyjagan at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Namaskaram Shri Subbu ji,
>
> Agreeing on the difference. I will defer to Shri Krishna Kashyap ji for
> sharing more details on SriVaikunta at maha-pralaya. I have heard some
> conflicting theories and would rather withhold my opinion due to lack of
> clarity & understanding.
>
>
> Yes, long ago I had arrived at this conclusion:  How does advaita view the
> other two schools? The answer is: The sadhana involving strong vairagyam
> towards the world and pure devotion to Bhagavan alone that is seen in the
> other two schools will mean to the Advaitin that they will go to Brahma
> loka.  The idea that they will get Advaita jnanam there will not be
> accepted by them but the Advaitin would place the Smarta sagunopasaka in
> line with the sadhakas of the other two schools. The sagunopasaka of
> Advaita also reaches Brahma loka.  Up till this the sadhakas of the other
> schools can be accommodated in Advaita's krama mukti path.
>
> In Advaitasiddhi there is a section where the forms and lokas of Bhagavan
> have been considered and finally concluded that these are not absolutely
> real and eternal.  There the commentary Laghuchandrika says that 'there is
> no pramana for the existence of an uncreated a-bautika (non-elemental)
> vaikuntha.'
>
> warm regards
> subbu
>
>
>
>
> However, the point I am trying to communicate is that the Advaita concept
> of krama-mukti is aligned with VA at least until the maha-pralaya state and
> therefore there should not be any reason for Visishtadvaitins for a
> conflict or criticism on this point of moksha marga against Advaita. In
> other words, from VA’s perspective, Advaita does not stand against VA at
> least until maha-pralaya. Of course Advaita goes a step further in the form
> of sadyo-mukti, but this should ideally not be a valid topic of criticism
> either since VA doesn’t believe in this concept or its logic to begin with.
>
> with humble prostrations,
> Vikram
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 26, 2024 at 12:12 AM V Subrahmanian <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Dear Vikram ji,
>
> The krama mukti of Advaita involves getting the Advaita aham brahmasmi
> jnanam in that Brahma loka and remaining there till maha pralaya when that
> loka also will perish upon which the jivas there who are Jnanis, will
> become videha muktas as per advaita.  The position of VA is that in that
> ultimate scenario the muktas will be in Vaikuntha, with individual
> identities. This is because jiva-jiva and jiva-Ishwara bheda is absolutely
> real in VA.
>
> warm regards
> subbu
>
>
>
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