[Advaita-l] [advaitin] Asked of Chatgpt: "Are there any definitions or descriptions that depict a positive ignorance in Sankara's commentary on the Brahma Sutras or classic 10 Upanishads whether in context or otherwise?

[H S Chandramouli]

Namaste Michael Ji,

Copying below a few statements from your post which directly contradict the
conclusion. There are many others which can be interpreted to lead to the
same conclusion. However I am not reproducing those statements.

//   **Non-Duality**: Shankaracharya emphasizes that Brahman is the only
reality and avidya is simply the veil over this truth  //.

//   **Absence of Positive Ignorance**: Shankaracharya does not typically
define avidya as a positive, active force. Instead, he characterizes it
more as a lack or veil over the true knowledge of Brahman //.

Notice the use of the word **veil**. Is **veil** an existent or a
nonexistent? Those who present avidyA as a **positive entity** very often
use the same term, namely **veil** , to convey the meaning that avidyA is a
**positive entity**. I also follow the same.  How do you understand it?

Regards

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On Wed, Jul 3, 2024 at 10:16 AM Michael Chandra Cohen <
michaelchandra108 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Adi Shankaracharya's commentaries on the **Brahma Sutras** and the
> **classic Upanishads** are pivotal in understanding his view on **avidya**
> (ignorance). The notion of avidya as positive ignorance versus a mere
> absence of knowledge is a significant interpretative issue. To address your
> question, let's delve into the definitions and descriptions of avidya in
> Shankaracharya’s works, focusing on whether they depict avidya as a
> positive ignorance.
>
> ### Analysis of Avidya in Shankaracharya’s Commentaries
>
> #### **1. Brahma Sutras**
>
> **Brahma Sutras (Brahmasutras) Commentary:**
> - **Sutra 1.1.1**: The Brahma Sutras start with "Athato Brahma Jijnasa,"
> which translates to "Now, therefore, the inquiry into Brahman."
> Shankaracharya’s commentary here emphasizes the need to understand Brahman,
> the ultimate reality, and addresses the role of avidya in obscuring this
> knowledge.
> - **Role of Avidya**: In his commentary, Shankaracharya typically
> describes avidya in terms of its effects, such as causing mistaken identity
> and suffering, rather than as a positive entity. For example, he describes
> avidya as leading to the false perception of duality but does not always
> characterize it as an active, positive force.
> - **Non-Duality**: Shankaracharya emphasizes that Brahman is the only
> reality and avidya is simply the veil over this truth. The focus is on
> dispelling ignorance through knowledge rather than combating an independent
> force of ignorance.
>
> #### **2. Classic Upanishads**
>
> **Chandogya Upanishad Commentary:**
> - **Chapter 6, Section 1**: Shankaracharya explains the concept of avidya
> as the cause of mistaken identity. He describes how individuals mistake
> themselves for the body and mind rather than recognizing their true nature
> as Brahman.
> - **Positive Ignorance**: Shankaracharya’s commentary here does not
> typically depict avidya as an active, positive force but rather as the
> absence of knowledge about the true nature of the Self. The focus is on
> removing this ignorance to reveal the ever-present reality of Brahman.
>
> **Mandukya Upanishad Commentary:**
> - **The Three States**: In his commentary on the Mandukya Upanishad,
> Shankaracharya discusses the states of consciousness (waking, dreaming, and
> deep sleep) and the ultimate reality (Turiya). He uses the concept of
> avidya to explain how the Self is obscured in these states but does not
> present avidya as an active force.
> - **Avidya’s Role**: Avidya is discussed as the source of ignorance about
> the Self’s true nature, leading to the mistaken perception of the world.
> Again, the treatment focuses on the lack of knowledge rather than an
> independent force.
>
> **Brhadaranyaka Upanishad Commentary:**
> - **Chapter 4, Section 3**: Shankaracharya discusses the nature of Brahman
> and how ignorance leads to misunderstanding. He describes avidya as
> obscuring the true knowledge of Brahman but does not elaborate it as a
> positive ignorance.
> - **Avidya’s Nature**: In this commentary, avidya is addressed as the lack
> of true knowledge, rather than as a positive entity causing illusions.
>
> ### Summary
>
> In Shankaracharya’s commentaries on the **Brahma Sutras** and the
> **classic Upanishads**, **avidya** is primarily described in terms of its
> effects—such as leading to mistaken identity and the perception of
> duality—rather than as a substantive, positive force. The general approach
> in these texts is to emphasize the removal of ignorance through direct
> knowledge of the Self (Atman) and Brahman.
>
> #### **Key Points:**
> - **Absence of Positive Ignorance**: Shankaracharya does not typically
> define avidya as a positive, active force. Instead, he characterizes it
> more as a lack or veil over the true knowledge of Brahman.
> - **Focus on Knowledge**: The primary solution offered in Shankaracharya’s
> commentaries is to gain true knowledge (atma-jnana) to dispel avidya, which
> aligns with the idea that avidya is not a positive ignorance but rather a
> lack of understanding.
>
> Thus, **Shankaracharya’s position**, based on the commentaries on these
> texts, supports the interpretation of avidya as an absence of knowledge
> rather than as a positive ignorance. This interpretation aligns with the
> perspective of Swami Satchidanandendra Saraswati, who also emphasizes that
> avidya is best understood as the lack of true knowledge rather than an
> independently existing positive force.
>
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