[Advaita-l] [advaitin] Asked of Chatgpt: "Are there any definitions or descriptions that depict a positive ignorance in Sankara's commentary on the Brahma Sutras or classic 10 Upanishads whether in context or otherwise?

[H S Chandramouli]

Namaste.

Reg  //  There are many others which can be interpreted to lead to the same
conclusion. However I am not reproducing those statements //,

I mean that there are many others which can be interpreted to lead to the
conclusion that avidyA is a **positive entity**.

Regards

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On Wed, Jul 3, 2024 at 1:32 PM H S Chandramouli <hschandramouli at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Namaste Michael Ji,
>
> Copying below a few statements from your post which directly contradict
> the conclusion. There are many others which can be interpreted to lead to
> the same conclusion. However I am not reproducing those statements.
>
> //   **Non-Duality**: Shankaracharya emphasizes that Brahman is the only
> reality and avidya is simply the veil over this truth  //.
>
> //   **Absence of Positive Ignorance**: Shankaracharya does not typically
> define avidya as a positive, active force. Instead, he characterizes it
> more as a lack or veil over the true knowledge of Brahman //.
>
> Notice the use of the word **veil**. Is **veil** an existent or a
> nonexistent? Those who present avidyA as a **positive entity** very often
> use the same term, namely **veil** , to convey the meaning that avidyA is a
> **positive entity**. I also follow the same.  How do you understand it?
>
> Regards
>
>
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> On Wed, Jul 3, 2024 at 10:16 AM Michael Chandra Cohen <
> michaelchandra108 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Adi Shankaracharya's commentaries on the **Brahma Sutras** and the
>> **classic Upanishads** are pivotal in understanding his view on **avidya**
>> (ignorance). The notion of avidya as positive ignorance versus a mere
>> absence of knowledge is a significant interpretative issue. To address your
>> question, let's delve into the definitions and descriptions of avidya in
>> Shankaracharya’s works, focusing on whether they depict avidya as a
>> positive ignorance.
>>
>> ### Analysis of Avidya in Shankaracharya’s Commentaries
>>
>> #### **1. Brahma Sutras**
>>
>> **Brahma Sutras (Brahmasutras) Commentary:**
>> - **Sutra 1.1.1**: The Brahma Sutras start with "Athato Brahma Jijnasa,"
>> which translates to "Now, therefore, the inquiry into Brahman."
>> Shankaracharya’s commentary here emphasizes the need to understand Brahman,
>> the ultimate reality, and addresses the role of avidya in obscuring this
>> knowledge.
>> - **Role of Avidya**: In his commentary, Shankaracharya typically
>> describes avidya in terms of its effects, such as causing mistaken identity
>> and suffering, rather than as a positive entity. For example, he describes
>> avidya as leading to the false perception of duality but does not always
>> characterize it as an active, positive force.
>> - **Non-Duality**: Shankaracharya emphasizes that Brahman is the only
>> reality and avidya is simply the veil over this truth. The focus is on
>> dispelling ignorance through knowledge rather than combating an independent
>> force of ignorance.
>>
>> #### **2. Classic Upanishads**
>>
>> **Chandogya Upanishad Commentary:**
>> - **Chapter 6, Section 1**: Shankaracharya explains the concept of avidya
>> as the cause of mistaken identity. He describes how individuals mistake
>> themselves for the body and mind rather than recognizing their true nature
>> as Brahman.
>> - **Positive Ignorance**: Shankaracharya’s commentary here does not
>> typically depict avidya as an active, positive force but rather as the
>> absence of knowledge about the true nature of the Self. The focus is on
>> removing this ignorance to reveal the ever-present reality of Brahman.
>>
>> **Mandukya Upanishad Commentary:**
>> - **The Three States**: In his commentary on the Mandukya Upanishad,
>> Shankaracharya discusses the states of consciousness (waking, dreaming, and
>> deep sleep) and the ultimate reality (Turiya). He uses the concept of
>> avidya to explain how the Self is obscured in these states but does not
>> present avidya as an active force.
>> - **Avidya’s Role**: Avidya is discussed as the source of ignorance about
>> the Self’s true nature, leading to the mistaken perception of the world.
>> Again, the treatment focuses on the lack of knowledge rather than an
>> independent force.
>>
>> **Brhadaranyaka Upanishad Commentary:**
>> - **Chapter 4, Section 3**: Shankaracharya discusses the nature of
>> Brahman and how ignorance leads to misunderstanding. He describes avidya as
>> obscuring the true knowledge of Brahman but does not elaborate it as a
>> positive ignorance.
>> - **Avidya’s Nature**: In this commentary, avidya is addressed as the
>> lack of true knowledge, rather than as a positive entity causing illusions.
>>
>> ### Summary
>>
>> In Shankaracharya’s commentaries on the **Brahma Sutras** and the
>> **classic Upanishads**, **avidya** is primarily described in terms of its
>> effects—such as leading to mistaken identity and the perception of
>> duality—rather than as a substantive, positive force. The general approach
>> in these texts is to emphasize the removal of ignorance through direct
>> knowledge of the Self (Atman) and Brahman.
>>
>> #### **Key Points:**
>> - **Absence of Positive Ignorance**: Shankaracharya does not typically
>> define avidya as a positive, active force. Instead, he characterizes it
>> more as a lack or veil over the true knowledge of Brahman.
>> - **Focus on Knowledge**: The primary solution offered in
>> Shankaracharya’s commentaries is to gain true knowledge (atma-jnana) to
>> dispel avidya, which aligns with the idea that avidya is not a positive
>> ignorance but rather a lack of understanding.
>>
>> Thus, **Shankaracharya’s position**, based on the commentaries on these
>> texts, supports the interpretation of avidya as an absence of knowledge
>> rather than as a positive ignorance. This interpretation aligns with the
>> perspective of Swami Satchidanandendra Saraswati, who also emphasizes that
>> avidya is best understood as the lack of true knowledge rather than an
>> independently existing positive force.
>>
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