[Advaita-l] FW: ***UNCHECKED*** Re: Re: RE: Re: [advaitin] apauruSheyatva of the Veda

[H S Chandramouli]

Namaste.

I had in my earlier post referred to Tai Up Bhashya reference on this
topic. I had also just mentioned that reference could also be made to the
Vartika by Swami Sureswaracharya on the same. I am listing below details
concerning the same

TUBV 288-308, English, Balasubrahmanian, PDF 212 - 223.

                           Kannada,  SSS, PDF 102 - 106.

TUBV Tika, Anandagiri Acharya , PDF 115 - 120.

 Tai Up with commentaries of Shankaracharya,

Sureswaracharya and Sayana (Vidyaranya) translated into english
by Sri Mahadeva Shastri,  PDF 433 – 444

The above has an illuminating discussion on the current topic. I am taking
the liberty of addressing this post directly to Venkat Ji and  Chittaranjan
Ji as well just to draw their specific attention to the same, in case they
have already not referred to the same.

Regards

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On Sat, Mar 9, 2024 at 3:50 AM suresh srinivasamurthy <sureshsmr at hotmail.com>
wrote:

> Namaste Bhaskar-ji,
>
> <
> That means either we have to say in brahma svarUpa everything exists
> eternally or nothing exists independently apart from brahman.  In either
> case veda is not on par with nityatva of brahman.
> >
> Could it be said that Brahman itself is Veda? I would say so because
> Atma-anAtma bheda also cannot exist in Brahman as ultimately everything is
> Brahman only based on the pramAna vAkyas like "sarvam khalvidam brahma" -
> "AtmaivAbhUt vijAnatah" - so on.
> This also helps to doubtlessly establish apourusheyatva of Veda.
>
> Regards,
> Suresh
> ------------------------------
> *From:* 'Bhaskar YR' via advaitin <advaitin at googlegroups.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 6, 2024 11:39 AM
> *To:* advaitin at googlegroups.com <advaitin at googlegroups.com>
> *Subject:* RE: FW: ***UNCHECKED*** Re: [Advaita-l] Re: RE: Re: [advaitin]
> apauruSheyatva of the Veda
>
>
> praNAms Sri Kalyan prabhuji
>
> Hare Krishna
>
>
>
> Thanks for providing this exact reference from sUtra bhAshya.
> mUlAvidyAvAdins say there is mUlAvidyA ( not jnAnAbhAva of brahmaikyata)
> but admit that there is not knower as such hence atra veda aveda..so as per
> them where there is not even deva, veda etc. but there exists mUlAvidyA
> which is shakti, bhAvarUpa, beeja shakti, upAdAna for adhyAsa etc.  😊
>
>
>
> Coming back to nityatva of veda, here it is quite evident that in sushupti
> veda is aveda because veda as pramANa works ONLY in duality (in other words
> avidyA kshetra) where pramAtru, pramANa and prameya holds sway
> individually.  So in a sense it is anAtma vastu which helps us to get the
> jnana and when pramAtru does not exist (in sushupti) and when pramAtrutva
> sublated in paramArtha jnana this veda will not be there.  That means
> either we have to say in brahma svarUpa everything exists eternally or
> nothing exists independently apart from brahman.  In either case veda is
> not on par with nityatva of brahman.  Hence shankara in adhyAsa bhAshya
> says : all the usage of pramANa-s and vishya jnana where it is loukika or
> vaidika would hold water only on the pre-supposition of the anyOnyAdhyAsa
> of the Atman and anatman.  Shankara quotes this atra veda aveda in
> connection with self-realized state though in shruti it is said in sushupti
> why??  Because there is unity of Atman in both the states.  You chAndOgya
> quote and below quote from sUtra bhAshya proves that.
>
>
>
> Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
>
> bhaskar
>
>
>
> *From:* advaitin at googlegroups.com <advaitin at googlegroups.com> *On Behalf
> Of *Kalyan
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 6, 2024 12:13 AM
> *To:* advaitin <advaitin at googlegroups.com>
> *Subject:* Re: FW: ***UNCHECKED*** Re: [Advaita-l] Re: RE: Re: [advaitin]
> apauruSheyatva of the Veda
>
>
>
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> Namaste Sri Bhaskarji
>
>
>
> >If I remember right this topic of cessation of shruti (veda) comes for
> discussion in sUtra bhAshya (4th chapter?? Geeta bhAshya ??
>
>
>
> This is stated in Brahmasutra Bhashya 4.1.3
>
>
>
> प्रत्यक्षाद्यभावे श्रुतेरप्यभावप्रसङ्ग इति चेत् न इष्टत्वात् अत्र पितापिता
> भवति इत्युपक्रम्य वेदा अवेदाः इति वचनात् इष्यत एव अस्माभिः श्रुतेरप्यभावः
> प्रबोधे।
>
>
>
> Opponent: In the absence of perception etc. the Vedas also will cease to
> exist.
>
> Vedantin: That is no defect, since that position is admitted by us. For
> according to the texts starting with, "In this state the father is no
> father" and ending with "The Vedas are no Vedas" (Br. IV. iii. 22), we do
> admit the absence of the Vedas themselves in the state of enlightenment.
>
>
>
> Best Regards
>
>
>
> On Tuesday 5 March, 2024 at 3:45:30 pm UTC+5:30 Bhaskar YR wrote:
>
> with the eternal Self, can be reconciled only if the mantras are eternal
>
> praNAms
> Hare Krishna
>
> One would always think what is meant by eternal here !! if this nityatva
> is like brahman / satya / Atman etc. then shruti itself would have not been
> said 'atra veda aveada', that too in sushupti (not even in paramArtha jnAna
> (source vide br.up.) so is it better to think maNtrOkta jnana is eternal
> like brahma tattva instead of mantra Shabda in itself!!?? Anyway, atra veda
> aveda shruti declaration definitely ring a bell that veda-s are not eternal
> in literal sense unlike brahma / tattva / satya. If I remember right this
> topic of cessation of shruti (veda) comes for discussion in sUtra bhAshya
> (4th chapter?? Geeta bhAshya ?? Not sure) Here bhAshyakAra is comfortable
> and OK with the cessation of shruti after the dawn of jnana, bhAshyakAra
> quotes here atra veda aveda and clarifies shruti itself endorses this
> termination of the validity of the shruti. Just thinking aloud.
>
> Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
> bhaskar
>
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