[Advaita-l] FW: ***UNCHECKED*** Re: Re: RE: Re: [advaitin] apauruSheyatva of the Veda

[Venkatraghavan S]

Thanks ji. I will check out the references and get back to you.

Regards,
Venkatraghavan

On Sun, 10 Mar 2024, 21:00 H S Chandramouli, <hschandramouli at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Namaste.
>
> I had in my earlier post referred to Tai Up Bhashya reference on this
> topic. I had also just mentioned that reference could also be made to the
> Vartika by Swami Sureswaracharya on the same. I am listing below details
> concerning the same
>
> TUBV 288-308, English, Balasubrahmanian, PDF 212 - 223.
>
>                            Kannada,  SSS, PDF 102 - 106.
>
> TUBV Tika, Anandagiri Acharya , PDF 115 - 120.
>
>  Tai Up with commentaries of Shankaracharya,
>
> Sureswaracharya and Sayana (Vidyaranya) translated into english
> by Sri Mahadeva Shastri,  PDF 433 – 444
>
> The above has an illuminating discussion on the current topic. I am taking
> the liberty of addressing this post directly to Venkat Ji and  Chittaranjan
> Ji as well just to draw their specific attention to the same, in case
> they have already not referred to the same.
>
> Regards
>
>
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> On Sat, Mar 9, 2024 at 3:50 AM suresh srinivasamurthy <
> sureshsmr at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Namaste Bhaskar-ji,
>>
>> <
>> That means either we have to say in brahma svarUpa everything exists
>> eternally or nothing exists independently apart from brahman.  In either
>> case veda is not on par with nityatva of brahman.
>> >
>> Could it be said that Brahman itself is Veda? I would say so because
>> Atma-anAtma bheda also cannot exist in Brahman as ultimately everything is
>> Brahman only based on the pramAna vAkyas like "sarvam khalvidam brahma" -
>> "AtmaivAbhUt vijAnatah" - so on.
>> This also helps to doubtlessly establish apourusheyatva of Veda.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Suresh
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* 'Bhaskar YR' via advaitin <advaitin at googlegroups.com>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 6, 2024 11:39 AM
>> *To:* advaitin at googlegroups.com <advaitin at googlegroups.com>
>> *Subject:* RE: FW: ***UNCHECKED*** Re: [Advaita-l] Re: RE: Re:
>> [advaitin] apauruSheyatva of the Veda
>>
>>
>> praNAms Sri Kalyan prabhuji
>>
>> Hare Krishna
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks for providing this exact reference from sUtra bhAshya.
>> mUlAvidyAvAdins say there is mUlAvidyA ( not jnAnAbhAva of brahmaikyata)
>> but admit that there is not knower as such hence atra veda aveda..so as per
>> them where there is not even deva, veda etc. but there exists mUlAvidyA
>> which is shakti, bhAvarUpa, beeja shakti, upAdAna for adhyAsa etc.  😊
>>
>>
>>
>> Coming back to nityatva of veda, here it is quite evident that in
>> sushupti veda is aveda because veda as pramANa works ONLY in duality (in
>> other words avidyA kshetra) where pramAtru, pramANa and prameya holds sway
>> individually.  So in a sense it is anAtma vastu which helps us to get the
>> jnana and when pramAtru does not exist (in sushupti) and when pramAtrutva
>> sublated in paramArtha jnana this veda will not be there.  That means
>> either we have to say in brahma svarUpa everything exists eternally or
>> nothing exists independently apart from brahman.  In either case veda is
>> not on par with nityatva of brahman.  Hence shankara in adhyAsa bhAshya
>> says : all the usage of pramANa-s and vishya jnana where it is loukika or
>> vaidika would hold water only on the pre-supposition of the anyOnyAdhyAsa
>> of the Atman and anatman.  Shankara quotes this atra veda aveda in
>> connection with self-realized state though in shruti it is said in sushupti
>> why??  Because there is unity of Atman in both the states.  You chAndOgya
>> quote and below quote from sUtra bhAshya proves that.
>>
>>
>>
>> Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
>>
>> bhaskar
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* advaitin at googlegroups.com <advaitin at googlegroups.com> *On Behalf
>> Of *Kalyan
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 6, 2024 12:13 AM
>> *To:* advaitin <advaitin at googlegroups.com>
>> *Subject:* Re: FW: ***UNCHECKED*** Re: [Advaita-l] Re: RE: Re:
>> [advaitin] apauruSheyatva of the Veda
>>
>>
>>
>> *Warning*
>>
>>
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>> Namaste Sri Bhaskarji
>>
>>
>>
>> >If I remember right this topic of cessation of shruti (veda) comes for
>> discussion in sUtra bhAshya (4th chapter?? Geeta bhAshya ??
>>
>>
>>
>> This is stated in Brahmasutra Bhashya 4.1.3
>>
>>
>>
>> प्रत्यक्षाद्यभावे श्रुतेरप्यभावप्रसङ्ग इति चेत् न इष्टत्वात् अत्र
>> पितापिता भवति इत्युपक्रम्य वेदा अवेदाः इति वचनात् इष्यत एव अस्माभिः
>> श्रुतेरप्यभावः प्रबोधे।
>>
>>
>>
>> Opponent: In the absence of perception etc. the Vedas also will cease to
>> exist.
>>
>> Vedantin: That is no defect, since that position is admitted by us. For
>> according to the texts starting with, "In this state the father is no
>> father" and ending with "The Vedas are no Vedas" (Br. IV. iii. 22), we do
>> admit the absence of the Vedas themselves in the state of enlightenment.
>>
>>
>>
>> Best Regards
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday 5 March, 2024 at 3:45:30 pm UTC+5:30 Bhaskar YR wrote:
>>
>> with the eternal Self, can be reconciled only if the mantras are eternal
>>
>> praNAms
>> Hare Krishna
>>
>> One would always think what is meant by eternal here !! if this nityatva
>> is like brahman / satya / Atman etc. then shruti itself would have not been
>> said 'atra veda aveada', that too in sushupti (not even in paramArtha jnAna
>> (source vide br.up.) so is it better to think maNtrOkta jnana is eternal
>> like brahma tattva instead of mantra Shabda in itself!!?? Anyway, atra veda
>> aveda shruti declaration definitely ring a bell that veda-s are not eternal
>> in literal sense unlike brahma / tattva / satya. If I remember right this
>> topic of cessation of shruti (veda) comes for discussion in sUtra bhAshya
>> (4th chapter?? Geeta bhAshya ?? Not sure) Here bhAshyakAra is comfortable
>> and OK with the cessation of shruti after the dawn of jnana, bhAshyakAra
>> quotes here atra veda aveda and clarifies shruti itself endorses this
>> termination of the validity of the shruti. Just thinking aloud.
>>
>> Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
>> bhaskar
>>
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