[Advaita-l] Bhagavan Rama

[Raghav Kumar Dwivedula]

Namaste Kaushik
I shall stop with this but the uttara kANDa constitutes a far weaker
pramANa for establishing Rama's divinity compared to Valmiki Ramayana.

Secondly Rama played the roles appropriate for that avatAra. It was all "as
though", "dehavAn iva jAtaH" as Advaita vedAnta says. The sectarian
vaiShnava understanding of the avatAra idea is flawed since they do not
have proper understanding of pAramArthika vs. vyAvahArika.



So Rama does say, *without detriment to.his divinity* ,  In sarga 117

ātmānaṃ mānuṣaṃ manye rāmaṃ daśarathātmajam || 6-117-11
so.ahaṃ yasya yataścāhaṃ bhagavaṃstadbravītu me |

"I think of myself to be a human being, by name Rama, the son of Dasaratha.
You, as a gracious Divinity, tell me that which I as such really am like
this."

Rama appears/acts as if what they are saying is news to him. And then
Brahma and other sages say -

kartā sarvasya lokasya śreṣṭho jñānavatāṃ prabhuḥ |
upekṣase kathaṃ sītāṃ patantīṃ havyavāhane || 6-117-6
kathaṃ devagaṇaśreṣṭhamātmānaṃ nāvabuddhyase |

"How do you, the maker of the entire cosmos, the foremost among those
endowed with knowledge and an all-capable person, ignore Seetha who is
falling into the fire? *How do you not recognize yourself* to be the
foremost of the troop of gods?"

So Rama may not have *needed* reminding (and I did not say he needed it )
but  the narrative there clearly shows Rama (as though) said he only knows
himself as Dasharatha's son and Brahman and others choose to remind him
saying "How do you not recognize yourself to be the foremost of the Gods
etc".
So the reminding did happen though it may have been superfluous.

I shall stop with this.

Om
Raghav

On Thu, 10 Oct, 2024, 6:40 pm Kaushik Chevendra via Advaita-l, <
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

> Namaste Raghav ji.
> I am afraid all the sampradayas accept the Uttarakhand. The
> Shankaracharya's admit it, (at least the puri peetham), all the shri
> Vaishnavas admit it, the madwas admit it too. All the major sampradayas
> including ours admit the Uttara khanda.
> However yes, in the Mahabharata Rama shows his Vishwaroopam to Parashurama
> and there are numerous cases in Ramayana where Rama is declared as the
> supreme lord. Infact the Yudha khanda has both Brahma and Lord shiva
> praising Rama to be the Supreme Lord.
> And regarding "reminding his divinity", this cannot be the case. In the
> Geeta commentary acharya clearly says that when lord takes a human birth he
> doesn't  forget his nature as sarva-butha mahesvara.
> अजोऽपि सन्नव्ययात्मा भूतानामीश्वरोऽपि सन् । प्रकृति स्वामधिष्ठाय
> संभवाम्यात्ममायया ॥६॥ 6. Though unborn and though the immutable Self and
> 138 Bhagavad Gītā Bhāsyam [Ch. IV the Lord of all living beings, resorting
> to My power of becoming, through My Māyā, I take birth. 6.1. अजोऽपि इति ।।
> अजः अपि जन्मरहितः अपि सन्, तथा अव्ययात्मा अक्षीणज्ञानशक्तिस्वभावः अपि सन्,
> तथा भूतानां ब्रह्मादिस्तम्बपर्यन्तानां ईश्वरः ईशनशीलः अपि सन् प्रकृति स्वां
> मम वैष्णवीं मायां त्रिगुणात्मिकां, यस्याः वशे सर्व [इदं] जगत् वर्तते, यया
> मोहितं जगत् सत् स्वं अरत्मानं वासुदेवं न जानाति. तां प्रकृति स्वां अधिष्ठाय
> वशीकृत्य संभवामि देहवान् इव भवामि जातः इव आत्ममायया आत्मनः मायया, न
> परमार्थतः लोकवत् ।। 6.1. Though I am the unborn and immutable Self, i.e.,
> though My cognitive power never wanes and I am the master of all beings
> from Brahmā down to a tuft of grass, resorting to, i.e. mastering, My
> 'power of becoming', I take birth or appear to become embodied. My power of
> becoming is all-pervasive; it consists of the three constituents. The
> entire world is subject to it. Deluded by it, the world does not know its
> own Self, Vasudeva. Thus am I born, as it were, by virtue of My power of
> becoming and not in fact, as is the case with the world.
>
>
> On Thu, 10 Oct 2024 at 13:51, Raghav Kumar Dwivedula via Advaita-l <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>
> > Namaste Kaushik
> > I understand the uttara khANDda is not part of the original Valmiki
> > Ramayana.
> >
> > The current scholarship even amongst the astikas indicates it may have
> been
> > later composition not by Valmiki.
> >
> > In other words the original Valmiki Ramayana employs the vipralambha rasa
> > (of separation). The story starts with the death of one of the two cranes
> > who were a loving couple. Then there is the separation of shravanakumara
> > from his parents. And Dasharatha from Rama and finally mother Sita from
> > Rama. The Valmiki Ramayana ends with the coronation of Rama.
> >
> > Now, a later author, a few thousands of years after Valmiki Maharshi, it
> > would appear used the same rasa of vipra-lambha to write the famous
> uttara
> > khANDa grantha in which mother Sita is against separated from Rama and
> then
> > successively all the brothers and Hanuman are also separated from Rama
> one
> > by one.
> >
> > But there are enough references within Valmiki Ramayana attesting to the
> > divinity of Rama particularly at the end when the Rishis remind Rama of
> his
> > divinity.
> >
> > I was hoping these older original references are collated at some place.
> >
> >
> > Om
> > Raghav
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, 10 Oct, 2024, 5:38 pm Kaushik Chevendra via Advaita-l, <
> > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> >
> > > On Thu, 10 Oct 2024 at 4:50 PM, Kaushik Chevendra <
> > > chevendrakaushik at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Namaste.
> > > > In recent times many have started to claim that Ramachandramurthy was
> > > only
> > > > a human in the Valmiki Ramayana and was later extolled as god. Even
> > > popular
> > > > preachers in telugu have started this nonsense. But upon
> > > > visiting the Ramayana one can see that these claims hold no water.
> > > > Here is a discussion between lord rama and death-
> > > > Valmiki Ramayana 67.104
> > > >
> > >
> > > Sorry please read the above as 7.104
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
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