[Advaita-l] [advaitin] How jnAnAbhAva can cause adhyAsa !!??

[Venkatraghavan S]

Namaste Sudhanshu ji,

I don't quite understand what you are saying. Let us take the siddhi quote
you had shared -  न च तर्हि प्रातरनुभूतचत्वरे गजज्ञानाभावज्ञानं कथमिति
वाच्यम् ; ज्ञानानुपलब्ध्यैवेत्यवेहि । अनुपलब्धिज्ञानं च भावरूपाज्ञानेन
लिङ्गेन ।

The siddhikAra is saying bhAva rUpa ajnAna is the linga for the cognition
of jnAna abhAva (anupalabdhi jnAnam = upalabdhi abhAva jnAnam = jnAna
abhAva jnAnam). bhAvarUpa ajnAna is not a jnAna karaNa, so the cognition of
jnAna abhAva born from it, is jnAna karaNa ajanya only. The definition of
anupalabdhi as ज्ञानकरणाजन्याभावानुभवासाधारणकारणमनुपलब्धिरूपं प्रमाणम् is
met.

1) It is jnAna karaNa ajanya - the linga for it is bhAvarUpa ajnAna, which
is not a type of jnAna. The cognition of ajnAna is not a jnAna either. As
ajnAna is sAkshi bhAsya, its cognition is not a "jnAna", for one to argue
that the cognition of jnAna abhAva that it leads to, is jnAna-karaNa-janya.
It is not a case like dhUma jnAna leading to vahni jnAna, where the dhUma
jnAna is an antahkaraNa vRtti.

Therefore, what you are referring to as an *anumAna *of jnAna abhAva with
bhAvarUpa ajnAna as the hetu / vyApya / linga is in fact not an anumAna at
all, but an anupalabdhi.

2) jnAna abhAva jnAna is a case of abhAva anubhava - one is directly aware
that there is no cognition. It is not a case like the shAbda abhAva jnAna
(like someone telling me that my friend is not at home).

Kind regards,
Venkatraghavan

On Sun, Sep 15, 2024 at 2:30 PM Sudhanshu Shekhar <sudhanshu.iitk at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Namaste Venkat ji.
>
> To clarify, for a bhAvarupa ajnAna vAdin, it is not a problem that
>> anupalabdhi (or any vRtti for that matter) is needed for the cognition of
>> jnAna abhAva, because for me there is a bhAvarUpa ajnAna that is not jnAna
>> abhAva.
>>
>> I hold that the object of the cognition "I don't know anything" is a
>> bhAvarUpa ajnAna, not jnAna abhAva. So, even if anupalabdhi reveals that
>> there is jnAna abhAva, what is revealed is bhAvarupa ajnAna only! Therefore
>> the existence of anupalabdhi vRtti does not invalidate the cognition "I
>> don't know".
>>
>
> Sorry. I don't follow you.
>
> Let us concentrate on siddhAnta. We accept bhAvarUpa ajnAna. However, we
> do accept jnAna-abhAva also which is distinct from bhAvarUpa ajnAna.
>
> The vishaya of pratIti "I don't know anything" is indeed bhAvarUpa ajnAna.
> But it does not imply that we do not admit jnAna-abhAva. In fact,
> jnAna-abhAva (distinct from bhAvarUpa ajnAna) is also present there.
>
> So, as per siddhAnta, in your opinion, what is the pramANa for knowing
> jnAna-abhAva.
>
> I feel it (present jnAna-abhAva) can be through anumAna, wherein
> bhAvarUpa-ajnAna is vyApya and jnAna-abhAva is vyApaka. Advaita Siddhi also
> seems to mention the same. BhAvrUpa ajnAna is sAkshi-bhAsya and acts as
> hetu resulting into jnAna of sAdhya (jnAna-abhAva).
>
>  न च तर्हि प्रातरनुभूतचत्वरे गजज्ञानाभावज्ञानं कथमिति वाच्यम् ;
> ज्ञानानुपलब्ध्यैवेत्यवेहि । अनुपलब्धिज्ञानं च भावरूपाज्ञानेन लिङ्गेन ।
>
>
> https://archive.org/details/Advaita.Siddhi.by.Madhusudana.Sarasvati/page/n578/mode/1up
>
> Please note that jnAna-abhAva is being known by using vyApti-jnAna through
> anumAna. Hence, jnAna-abhAva-jnAna is not jnAna-karaNa-ajanya. Hence, it is
> not being known through anupalabdhi-pramANa which is necessarily
> jnAna-karaNa-ajanaya.
>
> So, I feel jnAna-abhAva in siddhAnta is held to be known through anumAna
> (and through arthApatii also. But certainly not through anupalabdhi).
>
> JnAna-abhAva cannot be known through pratyaksha/anupalabdhi/sAkshI as
> discussed.
>
> Regards.
> Sudhanshu Shekhar.
>
>>