[Advaita-l] what is abhava?

[Michael Chandra Cohen]

Namaste Raghav,
Thanks for taking the trouble to find that citation but alas, my Sanskrit
is useless to read the text. How could prak-abhavA be prior to abhava
jnana? Doesn't make sense. I've asked someone better versed in SSSS's texts
for clarification.

/Only atyanta-abhAva (absolute non-existence) is accepted. //
What is it that is said to be atyanta abhava? If you name it then pratiyogi
gives it bhava, no? The message of Ghata Bhasya (BrU 1.2.1) is that there
can be NO absolute non-existence at all, as I understand the text: "
Moreover, if the jar before its manifestation be a complete abhāva
(nonentity) like the proverbial horns of a hare (śaśaviṣāṇavat), it cannot
be connected either with its cause or with existence (sat) "

regards, michael

On Sun, Sep 15, 2024 at 9:01 PM Raghav Kumar Dwivedula <
raghavkumar00 at gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Sun, 15 Sept, 2024, 7:18 pm Michael Chandra Cohen, <
> michaelchandra108 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Namaste Raghav, Thanks for the reference but I'd like to know more about
>> the context of the excerpt. On the surface, jnAna-abhAva as prak-abhava
>> makes no sense.
>>
>
> Yes. Even upon careful evaluation, the category called prAk-abhAva is
> problematic. And so SSS ji idea of jnAna-abhAva being a prior-non-existence
> is not supported by bhAShya.
>
> Here is the full reference.
>
>
> https://adhyatmaprakasha.org/php/bookreader/templates/book.php?type=sanskrit&book_id=008&pagenum=0001#page/45/mode/1up
>
>
> It would subject jnana and its absence to time whereas time depends on
>> adhyasa which is co-terminus with jnana abhava. These should not be taken
>> as events in time but rather as incorrect perceptions including time..
>>
>
> svarUpa jnAna is nitya. It is not subject to time.
>
> But vRtti-jnAna which takes us out of the stream of time, so to speak,
> does arise in time at a certain time when vedAnta pramANa works . Such
> vRtti jnAnam is mithyA, but it can be time-stamped.
>
> The siddhAnta is very clear that time is itself mithyA.
>
> But the Siddhanta position is that prAk-abhAva is not a valid category.
>
> Only atyanta-abhAva (absolute non-existence) is accepted. That applies to
> "horns of a hare" and snake seen in rope (upon negation by right
> understanding, it is understood as never having existed at all.)
>
> Om
> Raghav
>
>
>
>
>> //As you know the prior non-existence of any entity is not accepted in
>> siddhAnta, since satkAryavAda is adopted atleast provisionally.//
>> Sorry, I don't get this. Perhaps a typo (not). But, what is the entity
>> that we are referring to when we say prak-abhava. Is there an assumption of
>> avidya as a positive something that exists in time?
>>
>> Regards, michael
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 15, 2024 at 8:51 AM Raghav Kumar D wivedula via Advaita-l <
>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Namaste Michael
>>>
>>> SSSS ji says in SugamA as mentioned by Sudhanshu ji
>>>
>>>  तर्हि कतमोऽयं ज्ञानाभाव इति चेत् । प्रागभाव एवास्तु ।
>>> (Translation - In that case, *which type* is this jnAna-abhAva ?
>>> (Answer)
>>> It is prAk-abhAva, prior non-existence. )
>>>
>>> As you know the prior non-existence of any entity is not accepted in
>>> siddhAnta, since satkAryavAda is adopted atleast provisionally.
>>>
>>> Om
>>> Raghav
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The web-link is
>>>
>>> https://adhyatmaprakasha.org/php/bookreader/templates/book.php?type=sanskrit&book_id=008&pagenum=0001#page/45/mode/1up
>>>
>>> On Sun, 15 Sept, 2024, 3:32 pm Michael Chandra Cohen via Advaita-l, <
>>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Mimamsa speaks of 4 kinds of abhava - prior, subsequent, mutual and
>>> > absolute. Aren't these all material abhava-s?  When SSSSji refers to
>>> > abhavarupa avidya, which abhava is he referring to?
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>>