[Advaita-l] what is abhava?

[Raghav Kumar Dwivedula]

Namaste Michael
 Entities like "hare's horns" and snake seen in rope are said to have
atyanta abhAva. Only idam-amsha has anuvRtti.

Om
Raghav


On Mon, 16 Sept, 2024, 7:29 am Michael Chandra Cohen, <
michaelchandra108 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Namaste Raghav,
> Thanks for taking the trouble to find that citation but alas, my Sanskrit
> is useless to read the text. How could prak-abhavA be prior to abhava
> jnana? Doesn't make sense. I've asked someone better versed in SSSS's texts
> for clarification.
>
> /Only atyanta-abhAva (absolute non-existence) is accepted. //
> What is it that is said to be atyanta abhava? If you name it then
> pratiyogi gives it bhava, no? The message of Ghata Bhasya (BrU 1.2.1) is
> that there can be NO absolute non-existence at all, as I understand
> the text: " Moreover, if the jar before its manifestation be a complete
> abhāva (nonentity) like the proverbial horns of a hare (śaśaviṣāṇavat), it
> cannot be connected either with its cause or with existence (sat) "
>
> regards, michael
>
> On Sun, Sep 15, 2024 at 9:01 PM Raghav Kumar Dwivedula <
> raghavkumar00 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, 15 Sept, 2024, 7:18 pm Michael Chandra Cohen, <
>> michaelchandra108 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Namaste Raghav, Thanks for the reference but I'd like to know more about
>>> the context of the excerpt. On the surface, jnAna-abhAva as prak-abhava
>>> makes no sense.
>>>
>>
>> Yes. Even upon careful evaluation, the category called prAk-abhAva is
>> problematic. And so SSS ji idea of jnAna-abhAva being a prior-non-existence
>> is not supported by bhAShya.
>>
>> Here is the full reference.
>>
>>
>> https://adhyatmaprakasha.org/php/bookreader/templates/book.php?type=sanskrit&book_id=008&pagenum=0001#page/45/mode/1up
>>
>>
>> It would subject jnana and its absence to time whereas time depends on
>>> adhyasa which is co-terminus with jnana abhava. These should not be taken
>>> as events in time but rather as incorrect perceptions including time..
>>>
>>
>> svarUpa jnAna is nitya. It is not subject to time.
>>
>> But vRtti-jnAna which takes us out of the stream of time, so to speak,
>> does arise in time at a certain time when vedAnta pramANa works . Such
>> vRtti jnAnam is mithyA, but it can be time-stamped.
>>
>> The siddhAnta is very clear that time is itself mithyA.
>>
>> But the Siddhanta position is that prAk-abhAva is not a valid category.
>>
>> Only atyanta-abhAva (absolute non-existence) is accepted. That applies to
>> "horns of a hare" and snake seen in rope (upon negation by right
>> understanding, it is understood as never having existed at all.)
>>
>> Om
>> Raghav
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> //As you know the prior non-existence of any entity is not accepted in
>>> siddhAnta, since satkAryavAda is adopted atleast provisionally.//
>>> Sorry, I don't get this. Perhaps a typo (not). But, what is the entity
>>> that we are referring to when we say prak-abhava. Is there an assumption of
>>> avidya as a positive something that exists in time?
>>>
>>> Regards, michael
>>>
>>> On Sun, Sep 15, 2024 at 8:51 AM Raghav Kumar D wivedula via Advaita-l <
>>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Namaste Michael
>>>>
>>>> SSSS ji says in SugamA as mentioned by Sudhanshu ji
>>>>
>>>>  तर्हि कतमोऽयं ज्ञानाभाव इति चेत् । प्रागभाव एवास्तु ।
>>>> (Translation - In that case, *which type* is this jnAna-abhAva ?
>>>> (Answer)
>>>> It is prAk-abhAva, prior non-existence. )
>>>>
>>>> As you know the prior non-existence of any entity is not accepted in
>>>> siddhAnta, since satkAryavAda is adopted atleast provisionally.
>>>>
>>>> Om
>>>> Raghav
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The web-link is
>>>>
>>>> https://adhyatmaprakasha.org/php/bookreader/templates/book.php?type=sanskrit&book_id=008&pagenum=0001#page/45/mode/1up
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, 15 Sept, 2024, 3:32 pm Michael Chandra Cohen via Advaita-l, <
>>>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Mimamsa speaks of 4 kinds of abhava - prior, subsequent, mutual and
>>>> > absolute. Aren't these all material abhava-s?  When SSSSji refers to
>>>> > abhavarupa avidya, which abhava is he referring to?
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>>>