[Advaita-l] Kena Upanishad Shankara bhashya- pada, vakya, sanskrit question. (अभ्रूम)

[Krishna Kashyap]

Namaste Subbu Ji,

Good citations from Isavasya. Thanks.

*Best Regards,*

*Krishna Kashyap*




On Wed, Jan 29, 2025 at 3:39 PM V Subrahmanian via Advaita-l <
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

> On Tue, Jan 28, 2025 at 6:39 PM Krishna Kashyap via Advaita-l <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>
> > Thanks, Sudanshu Ji. for the clarification. this panini ashtadhyayi info
> is
> > useful. I apologize for bringing this up. i use HH SSS to indicate HH
> > Sachidanandendra Swami.
> >
> > //Either there seems to be a mistake in the usage by Vedas, if you take
> > this vakya bhashya view as valid, or the vakya bhashya is itself
> > questionable!//
> >
> > Definitely, I don't have so much knowledge to make any bold statement.
> this
> > is just a doubt in my mind. I am raising it without fear of a powerful
> > counter-argument so that I can learn.
> >
> > *However, there were other reasons for such a view.* I am not a grammar
> > expert, Veda, or Upanishad expert. I am a student sincerely trying to
> > understand. I have studied almost every sentence of Shankara Bhashya from
> > HH SSS book and I understand some superficial Sanskrit. I have studied
> some
> > Upanishad bhashyas of Shankaracharya. the style of vakya bhashya seems
> > different. Further see below:
> >
> > there is an interesting note from HH SSS: in his view, this sentence of
> the
> > vakya bhasya seems inappropriate (as per HH SSS) see below:
> >
> > •। ईश्वरनिमित्ते विजये स्वसामर्थ्यनिमित्तोऽस्माकमेवायं विजयोऽस्माकमेवायं
> > महिमेत्यात्मनो जयादिश्रेयोनिमित्तं सर्वात्मानमात्मस्थं
> > सर्वकल्याणास्पदमीश्वरमेवात्मत्वेनाबुद्ध्वा पिण्डमात्राभिमानाः सन्तो यं
> > मिथ्याप्रत्ययं चक्रुः तस्य पिण्डमात्रविषयत्वेन
> > मिथ्याप्रत्ययत्वात्सर्वात्मेश्वरयाथात्म्यावबोधेन हातव्यताख्यापनार्थः
> > तद्धैषामित्याद्याख्यायिकाम्नायः
> >
> > footnote in HH SSS book•This indicates that agni, vayu, Indra, who are
> > exalted, had dehatma-bhrama to the extent that they did not believe in an
> > atman other than the body पिण्डमात्राभिमानाः सन्तो - this seems
> > inappropriate!!- HH SSS
> >
>
> Here, in the Ishavasya Bhashyam, Shankara says that from a particular
> standpoint, even Deva-s etc. are asuras:
>
> अथेदानीमविद्वन्निन्दार्थोऽयं मन्त्र आरभ्यते —
>
> असुर्या नाम ते लोका अन्धेन तमसा वृताः ।
> तांस्ते प्रेत्याभिगच्छन्ति ये के चात्महनो जनाः ॥ ३ ॥
> *असुर्याः परमात्मभावमद्वयमपेक्ष्य देवादयोऽप्यसुराः । *तेषां च स्वभूता लोका
> असुर्याः नाम । नामशब्दोऽनर्थको निपातः । ते लोकाः कर्मफलानि लोक्यन्ते
> दृश्यन्ते भुज्यन्त इति जन्मानि । अन्धेन अदर्शनात्मकेनाज्ञानेन तमसा आवृताः
> आच्छादिताः । तान् स्थावरान्तान् , प्रेत्य त्यक्त्वेमं देहम् अभिगच्छन्ति
> यथाकर्म यथाश्रुतम् । ये के च आत्महनः आत्मानं घ्नन्तीत्यात्महनः । के ? ते
> जनाः येऽविद्वांसः । कथं ते आत्मानं नित्यं हिंसन्ति ? अविद्यादोषेण
> विद्यमानस्यात्मनस्तिरस्करणात् । विद्यमानस्यात्मनो यत्कार्यं
> फलमजरामरत्वादिसंवेदनादिलक्षणम् , तत् हतस्येव तिरोभूतं भवतीति प्राकृता
> अविद्वांसो जना आत्महन इत्युच्यन्ते । तेन ह्यात्महननदोषेण संसरन्ति ते ॥
> He contrasts those in ignorance with the ones that have transcended
> ignorance by knowing the Atman whose nature is stated in the next mantra:
> यस्यात्मनो हननादविद्वांसः संसरन्ति, तद्विपर्ययेण विद्वांसो
> मुच्यन्तेऽनात्महनः, तत्कीदृशमात्मतत्त्वमित्युच्यते —
>
> अनेजदेकं मनसो जवीयो नैनद्देवा आप्नुवन्पूर्वमर्षत् ।
> तद्धावतोऽन्यानत्येति तिष्ठ—त्तस्मिन्नपो मातरिश्वा दधाति ॥ ४ ॥
>
> Also how about the 'Da Da Da' teaching in the Brihadaranyaka Upanishad,
> that Brahma/Prajapati gave out to the Asuras, Devas and humans:
>
> For Asuras - Dayadhvam, be compassionate.  For Devas - Daamyata,  regulate
> your sense-gratification. For humans: Engage in charity.
>
> Here the Upanishad itself implies that Devas who are much above humans, are
> steeped in sense pleasures. Naturally this implies body-attachment. So,
> Shankara's Kena bhashya observation is not out of place. In fact the
> Bh.Gita 16 chapter Aasuri sampat verses can be applied to the condition of
> the Deva-s here.
>
> warm regards
> subbu
>
>
> > Please note: In another Upanishad when Virochana, asura, and Indra went
> to
> > learn under Prajapati, Virochana had dehatma bhrama, while Indra returned
> > to learn 3 or 4 times and finally found the true answer. He did not have
> > dehatma bhrama.
> > stating that Indra had dehatma bhrama in kena upanishad seems awkward.
> >
> > on the contrary, pada bhasya seems non commital:
> > see kena upanishad pada bhashya which simply indicates *मिथ्याभिमान and
> > nothing more serious than that:*
> > *सा ब्रह्मेति होवाच ह किल ब्रह्मणः वै ईश्वरस्यैव विजये — ईश्वरेणैव जिता
> > असुराः । यूयं तत्र निमित्तमात्रम् । तस्यैव विजये — यूयं महीयध्वं महिमानं
> > प्राप्नुथ । एतदिति क्रियाविशेषणार्थम् । मिथ्याभिमानस्तु युष्माकम् —
> > अस्माकमेवायं विजयोऽस्माकमेवायं महिमेति । ततः तस्मादुमावाक्यात् ह एव
> > विदाञ्चकार ब्रह्मेति इन्द्रः ; अवधारणात् ततो हैव इति, न स्वातन्त्र्येण ॥*
> >
> > *this seems appropriate respect for Indra who saw Uma and had a
> > conversation!*
> > *अथवा उमैव हिमवतो दुहिता हैमवती नित्यमेव सर्वज्ञेनेश्वरेण सह वर्तत इति
> > ज्ञातुं समर्थेति कृत्वा तामुपजगाम.*
> > how many of us can meet face to face Venerable "Parvati"? hence we have
> to
> > accept Indra as spiritually superior to at least me! if not others.
> >
> > *I am open to being corrected. Please bash me up!!! I will learn more!
> How
> > can I have ego, since I spent 50 years in search of money and a good life
> > without being dedicated to Upanishads?*
> > Incidentally, i liked the ishwara siddhi arguments in vakya bhashya which
> > is very unique, since nowhere in any other part of shankara-bhashya of
> > dasha upanishads or sutras or gita, is such a long argument for ïshwara
> > siddhi given.
> >
> >
> > *Best Regards,*
> >
> > *Krishna Kashyap*
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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