[Advaita-l] [advaitin] Deep Sleep is Nondual Self with objections refuted, SSSS

[Michael Chandra Cohen]

Namaste Sudhanshuji,
Prasanth Neti's response:

Prasanth Neti
<https://www.facebook.com/groups/162360101096963/user/1381209632/?__cft__[0]=AZVj_Zp6dr8KJqPkLTEBejUKEuEsXnMFQWN2BVbAyKfT2g4fN1C3Cc5ctTep7jY5pxj5IFQI2A8MKfRJS19e4TpZTrBP3MH7ZH2ENksHle81wQXG_lBYAybbyb-Xl26IVQ-lofh1UmETrh805ADpOgmFoTzWHfDsLLywe3rEPAtGLZy71WRajwydOMJ6voj1IZcoyidhKUUdZ-PhALpMoCnbUtHCDoQ10AisdPrLoVhAbA&__tn__=R]-R>
Michael Chandra Cohen
<https://www.facebook.com/groups/162360101096963/user/694896845/?__cft__[0]=AZVj_Zp6dr8KJqPkLTEBejUKEuEsXnMFQWN2BVbAyKfT2g4fN1C3Cc5ctTep7jY5pxj5IFQI2A8MKfRJS19e4TpZTrBP3MH7ZH2ENksHle81wQXG_lBYAybbyb-Xl26IVQ-lofh1UmETrh805ADpOgmFoTzWHfDsLLywe3rEPAtGLZy71WRajwydOMJ6voj1IZcoyidhKUUdZ-PhALpMoCnbUtHCDoQ10AisdPrLoVhAbA&__tn__=R]-R>
 ji
Thank you. Same old objections. But because I respect Sudhanshu ji please
let me answer to him again:
//// From standpoint of truth, there is no sushupti. There is only truth.
There is only turiya. ////
I agree. See, when I said “from standpoint of truth sushupti itself is said
to be the truth”, I said so because the objection from other side is that,
‘sushupti is never turiya’ - What I mean is ‘snake is not snake but rope
alone’. Similarly, sushupti is not sushupti (as vishwa fancies) but turiya
alone. If someone wants to use that and also say waking is also not waking
but Turiya alone. I am more happy to accept. All I am saying is, that
enquiry pivots over correction about sushupti.
//// prAjna-tva of prAjna and taijasa-tva of taijasa are Avidyā-krita ////
Let whoever considers themselves to be vishwa and prAjna have that Avidyā
(Avidyā kRtam) also! Why care? Sastra is teaching prAjna is after all an
idea of vishwa. And Sastra is also teaching, you are NOT vishwa. Let the
focus be there. Therefore, let us not (ab)use sastra by point to Avidyā as
a positive fact of life. But please, let us use sastra only to sublating
Avidyā by paying attention to sarvatrika anubhava.
What PSV followers are doing is exactly stopping happening of that
sublation. To them, the most favorite statement from sastra is ‘you have
Avidyā’. But to me most purposeful statement is, ‘you are not what you
think you are!’. Therefore, based on this difference it is clear where
Post-Sankara Vedānta leads to - Avidyā-sthapana and nothing else.
Whenever Post-Sankara Vedānta followers again and again deny atma’s
asangatvam in Sushupti, there is no need to say that in Post-Sankara
Vedānta, ātma’s asangatvam is a lip service and mere dogma to be believed
in - not a nature of vastu.
As I have responded elsewhere, purpose of avasthatraya vichara is not
reaffirm my status quo that, ‘there are avasthas’. But the true purpose is
to teach me that ātma is ever asanga even when it appears to be having
avasthas as it were, because in ātma, there is really no sanga with
anything (including sanga with an avastha).
Please, to me that alone is Vedānta which sublates my status quo i.e.
sublates my idea that there are avasthas. And that is not Vedānta which
gives me a satisfying justification to status quo by explaining the role of
Avidyā as the caretaker of my status quo (saying vishwa-tva is
Avidyā-krita). I sat down to listen to Vedānta to understand how “I am
Brahman”, not sat down to know that “I am a Jiva” - I already know that I
am a Jiva and that is why I came to Vedānta with a jignasa. Let me
transcend Jivatvam, please leave me from that Vedanta which reinforces
jivatvam. I take leave here. Praṇām.

On Thu, Jun 19, 2025 at 2:15 PM Michael Chandra Cohen <
michaelchandra108 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Namaste Sudhanshuji and Jaishankar,
> I will copy/paste Sudhanshuji's reply to PN ji in FB.  PN ji commented
> that he does not wish to discuss with anyone who has not read SSSS - quite
> understandable to my mind. So, I won't bother with JS's reply.
>
> Jaishankar, have you looked at that article I posted a few days back. Any
> reaction?
>
> Regards, Michael Chandra
>
> On Thu, Jun 19, 2025 at 1:32 PM Sudhanshu Shekhar <
> sudhanshu.iitk at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Namaste.
>>
>> Prājña is tritIya from waking standpoint. However, from standpoint of
>>>> truth (i.e. from its own standpoint) that itself is said to be the truth
>>>> (again “the fourth!” from waking standpoint).
>>>>
>>>
>> From standpoint of truth, there is no sushupti. There is only truth.
>> There is only turIya.
>>
>> The prAjna-tva of prAjna is avidyA-krita. Remove prAjna-tva and that is
>> turIya.
>>
>> The vishwa-tva of vishwa and taijasa-tva of taijasa is avidyA-krita.
>> Remove vishwa-tva and taijasa-tva and that is turIya.
>>
>> One needs to remove upAdhi. In case of prAjna, ONLY avidyA is upAdhi. So,
>> we remove that to arrive at turIya. From the standpoint of truth, there is
>> no avidyA. Naturally, what is referred as prAjna is revealed as turIya.
>>
>> But then, what was referred as vishwa and taijasa are also revealed as
>> turIya. In their cases, avidyA and also mind are upAdhi. From standpoint of
>> truth, the upAdhis are not present and hence vishwa and taijasa are
>> revealed as turIya.
>>
>> What is this preferential treatment for prAjna? Be it prAjna, vishwa or
>> taijasa, their literal meaning is "turIya with some upAdhi". From
>> standpoint of truth, there is no upAdhi.
>>
>> So, to aver turIyatva of prAjna alone in a preferential manner from the
>> standpoint of truth is misleading.
>>
>> Regards.
>> Sudhanshu Shekhar.
>>
>>
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