Jaldhar H. Vyas jaldhar at BRAINCELLS.COM
Mon Nov 18 12:37:41 CST 1996

From: M & E Shearn <peacewrk at SNET.NET>

> namaste
> There is no claim here, my intense friend, that there is any intelectual
> knowledge of Vedanta or smurtis, shastras or any other Eastern way of life
> or thought. The teaching of Advaita Vedanta only came after there was an
> experience of That and seeing, through That limitless Peace, how foolish the
> seeming dramas of good and evil, ignorance and knowledge and life and death
> are in comparison to That. Advaita Vedanta validated what was experienced,
> and by the Grace of the Guru, which is that experience and the desire to
> hold it, through Advaita Vedanta,  He shows me the "path", as if there is
> such to what is already one's Self.
> If Knowledge was abided in by me, there would not be any need for this
> discussion! There is no me or any person in That Being. Only this ignorance
> brings me into these 'spiritual pissing contests'. I do not claim to be a
> jnani. Of course what jnani would? Jnani being only limited veiw from ajnana
> of Jnana it Self. There is the attempt however to abide in that Knowledge
> which is not seperate of the Self. After tasting That nectar any intention
> for any other person, place or thing, any intelectual knowledge or even any
> individuality is incredibly insane, to me.

It remains to be seen whether you have indeed tasted that nectar.  The
description you give above is not proof enough.  The dreamer and the drunk
also experience similiar things.  This is why various learned people have
paid so much painstaking attention to try and determine the scope and
nature of the pramanas.  Pramana shastra (epistemology I believe is the
English term) is of the utmost value in determining the nature of truth.
The salient character of truth is that it is independently verifiable and
not dependant on ones's subjective experiences.  It is true that the
ultimate goal is beyond the scope of the pramanas.  But they point the way
to it. Advaita Vedanta's job is not to validate your experiences, it is to
show you what your experiences should be.  This requires intensive,
logical study of the meaning of the Vedanta texts.  Even if they cannot
completely remove avidya, they can at least drastically reduce ignorance
making eventual Moksha that much easier.

I get the feeling that what you think Advaita is is something different
from what it really means.  Yet when I point that out instead of treating
it as an opportunity for introspection get all in a huff and dismiss it as
a spiritual pissing contest.  (Which it should be noted you entered.  I
was replying to someone else.)  This does not bode well for your future

> You claim that "you" will do this and that, planning "your" lifeout
> according to "your dharma". Whether that is your parahbda or not, one cannot
> say, but what I will say is the thought 'I am the body/mind/ego' is the
> "knot of the heart" and that which is negated by 'not-this, not-this' in
> "your" scriptures. With the thought 'I am the person' comes the thought
> 'that is the world' and the bondage sealing idea that 'I am the doer'. Isn't
> that sowing the seeds of karma, which you so adamently wish to overcome?

Not so.  The mere repetition of the words 'neti neti' are not enough.  A
parrot can be trained to say them.  Will it then receive Moksha?  What is
needed is the true understanding of the meaning of those words.  You must
understand the "this" (samsara) which is being referred to.  Another
poster asked me to consider statements such as "it is this and not-this"
If my answer seemed abrupt, it's because this cannot be considered.
Asserting two contradictory statements violates the most basic cannons of
logic.  To understand the underlying truth behind those words requires
indirect means and rarely does that insight happen overnight.  In the mean
time it is a sin to abandon ones duties.  Shankaracharya says if one shuns
the kamya karmas and dispassionately practices the nitya and naimittik
ones, it purifies you and prepares you for entry into the jnana-marg.  It
is not a cause of Moksha but it isn't a hindrance to the pursuit of Moksha
if done with the realization of its limitations and the intention to
eventually renounce.

Jaldhar H. Vyas [jaldhar at braincells.com]   And the men .-_|\ who hold
Consolidated Braincells Inc.                          /     \
http://www.braincells.com/jaldhar/ -)~~~~~~~~  Perth->*.--._/  o-
"Witty quote" - Dead Guy   /\/\/\ _ _ ___ _  _ Amboy       v      McQ!

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