Shiva sutras

Jaldhar H. Vyas jaldhar at BRAINCELLS.COM
Sun Jul 14 21:47:36 CDT 2002

On Thu, 11 Jul 2002, ken knight wrote:

> Many thanks for all the Panini info.  I was somewhat
> careless in my question as I was wondering if we know
> much of the pre-Panini grammarians as well as his own
> insight...

Panini mentions several older authorities such as Shakalya, Shakatayana,
Atreya, etc.  Some of these authors are also know from other linguistic
Vedangas such as Shiksha.

> as has been said; it was all probably a gift
> of grace.

There may have been some prior groundwork but such a full-blown and
intricate arrangement such as the ashtadhyayi has to be the work of a
single genius in my opinion.

> You have given me some new leads for enquiry and i
> will come back to these later on as I must go out
> today, to the Vidya Bhavan in London where I hope to
> hear some insight on the use of 'tadvanam'as a mantra
> in Kena Up. part 4v6.  In the light of advaita this is
> anvery interesting verse and no one on this site
> picked up my question as to the tradition being
> referred to by Swami Nikhilananda in his commentary on
>  this verse.  If you have any comments on this
> reference I would be grateful to learn of it,

That is an upasana or meditation which despite being located in an
upanishad is part of the karmakanda and thus any tradition about its' use
would be restricted to those qualified for it.  What did Swami
Nikhilananda say?

Jaldhar H. Vyas <jaldhar at>
It's a girl! See the pictures -
>From ADVAITA-L at LISTS.ADVAITA-VEDANTA.ORG Sun Jul 14 22:23:29 2002
Message-Id: <SUN.14.JUL.2002.222329.0700.ADVAITAL at LISTS.ADVAITAVEDANTA.ORG>
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 22:23:29 -0700
Reply-To: List for advaita vedanta as taught by Shri Shankara
To: List for advaita vedanta as taught by Shri Shankara
From: Jagannath Chatterjee <jagchat01 at YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: "Jagat satya!"
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0207142136070.11608-100000 at>
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Respected Sri Vyas,


Thank you for clearing my views on the subject.

However in passing I would clarify Sri Ramakrishna's
plunge into advaita vedanta under the able tutelage of
Totapuri, a staunch advaitin from North India. At
first Sri Ramakrishna was unable to dissociate himself
from the vision of Mother Kali which stood as a
stumbling block to his efforts to know the non dual
Absolute. This enraged Totapuri  and he pricked a
piece of broken glass inbetween the eyebrows of Sri
Ramakrishna and asked him to meditate by concentrating
on that point.  Sri Ramakrishna was then able to "cut
the image of Mother Kali" by the "sword of knowledge"
and thus soared into the non dual world of nirvikalpa
samadhi in which state he remained for three days at a
stretch before Totapuri, fearing the fall of his body,
brought him down to the world.

I don't shun from declaring Sri Sri Sankaracharya a
world teacher, even if it be from my "ignorance" (as
some have suggested). After attaining moksha there is
no sense of the teacher and the taught, I admit. But
what would have been our fate if Sri Sri Sankaracharya
and Bhagawan Sri Ramana Maharshi had not resorted to
this "ignorance" and turned a blind eye to this world
instead of cultivating compassion for the jivas mired
in this dual world !

Sri Sri Sankaracharya was not a dry intellectualist.
The verses in praise of various God's and Goddesses he
composed would melt the heart of stone. He is also
revered by the tantrics (or rather Sakti pujaks) for
his "Saundarya Lahari" and "Lalita Sahasranama". Sri
Sankaracharya also placed the Sri Chakra in the Sarada
Peetha (if I am not wrong). His experience at Kashi
which led him to compose the famous Annapurna Stotram
is well known.

Yours sincerely

--- "Jaldhar H. Vyas" <jaldhar at BRAINCELLS.COM> wrote:
> On Fri, 12 Jul 2002, Jagannath Chatterjee wrote:
> > Dear Sirs,
> >
> > Namaskar.
> >
> > Sri Ramakrishna had certain things to say about
> > vedanta which is peculiar to Him.
> We recently discussed on the list (you can search
> the archives) that Shri
> Ramakrishna wass probably not really an Advaitin at
> all.  Rather he
> belongs squarely in the also venerable and profound
> Bengali Tantric
> tradition.  In the 19th century, Bengal was the
> epicenter of colonialism.
> Some people became totally Westernized and converted
> to Christianity,
> others retreated completely into Indian culture and
> raised the barricades.
> There was a third group that felt loyal to their
> heritage but also wanted
> to prove to the world at large that Hinduism was
> just as modern and up to
> date as any other religion.  The trouble is to the
> prudish Victorian mind
> Tantra seemed backward and immoral.  But Advaita
> Vedanta was highly
> respected by both our public and the Westerners so
> everything got
> reinterpreted through the prism of Advaita Vedanta.
> > He refused to say
> > that the "jagat" is "mithya". Though a vedantist
> to
> > the core (He belonged to the Dashnami group)
> Although the Dashanami order was founded by
> Shankaracharya, there are
> several sects today which are rebel offshoots.  For
> instance ISKCON.  The
> Gaudiya Vaishnavas are definitely not Advaitins by
> any stretch of the
> imagination.
> The ideas you mention do not make sense within the
> framework of Advaita
> Vedanta but they do from a Tantric point of view.
> Tantra is also non-dual
> to some extent so there is a lot in common but there
> are also vital
> differences.
> > He was of
> > the opinion that the world was as
> > real as the consciousness behind it for had not
> God
> > become the world? How can God be "mithya"!.
> >
> Advaita Vedanta doesn't teach that God becomes the
> world per se.  God
> (Brahman) is the underlying substrate of all that
> exists but due to maya
> it appears that the eternal and partless substrate
> is manifold and subject
> to creation, destruction etc.  It is this
> world-appearence which is
> mithya.
> And yes if by God we mean Brahman in the saguna
> aspect He too belongs to
> the realm of Maya being a superimposition on the
> true nirguna essence of
> Brahman.  The philosophical views of Tantra on the
> nature of the universe
> are very similiar to Samkhya and Shankaracharya
> spends a lot of time
> refuting those views in Brahmasutrabhashya II.1
> > He considered duality to be a stepping stone to
> > nonduality.
> For Shankaracharya the idea that duality can lead to
> non-duality is absurd
> like saying overeating can lead to thinness.  Yes
> duality has to be
> accepted as the current condition of the deluded
> jiva.  But it must be
> renounced in totality before an attempt can be made
> on non-duality.  Thus
> only the sannyasi is the true Advaitin.
> > He said that when one reaches the roof one
> > finds that the staircase is made up of the same
> cement
> > and bricks as the roof.
> >
> The Advaitin would find that there never actually
> was a staircase and he
> had been on the roof all along without knowing it.
> :)
> > He advised his devotees to enjoy the "lila" even
> after realising the
> > "nitya". He rued that He Himself had opted out of
> the game by burning
> > His bridges behind Him.
> >
> According to Shankaracharya the shastras prescribe
> two paths.  Pravrtti
> for those who are "worldly" with three goals dharma,
> artha, and kama, and
> Nivrtti for those who seek moksha.  There is an
> unbridgeable gulf between
> these two paths.
> --
> Jaldhar H. Vyas <jaldhar at>
> It's a girl! See the pictures -

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