Vishnu and Shiva

[kalyan chakravarthy]

Namaskaaram,


>So you have no objection.

I DO have objection reading it as rudra gaining strength from himself.

>By the same token, the Veda should also not waste words by repitition,
>since there is no need to know something already known. But the Veda
>repeatedly points out that Brahman ought to be known.

Let it point out. But by no means that is obvious. And also you did not
address the other objection raised by me.


>So we now know that VishhNu is not Brahman, for it is from VishhNu that
>Rudra gains his strength, and nothing gains anything from Brahman :-)

I think you have just made this statement to inject a sense of humour.
Nowhere is it stated in the sruti that Vishnu gains his power from Rudra.
The other objection that there is no gaining or losing of anything for
Brahman has not even been addressed.


>We can discuss academically, but most of my other objections have not been
>answered to from the previous post, and since circular arguments are
>tiring, I will now sign off.

All objections have been answered. The svetasvatara indicates similarity of
rudra with praajna and not turiya. This is not a circular statement.

If the rudra in Sv U is indeed rudra of RV, then it is a contradiction as
the rudra of RV *derives* his power from Vishnu. Also it is devi that is the
source of rudra's power. This is not a circular statement.

There is a new argument that I advance here. Immediately after the rudra
verses, the Sv U also says  -

Higher than this is Brahman, the supreme, the infinite,....

The *this* should rudra only especially if it is the rudra of the rigveda.
There is something higher than this rudra. This interpretation can also
prevents contradiction between RV and SvU. Thus the inner Self and other
words apply to Brahman only and to none else. This is not a circular
statement.


>but most of my other objections have not been
>answered to from the previous post, and since circular arguments are
>tiring, I will now sign off.

Good, if you find that all arguments are circular, then you are free to
refrain from replying. I never insist on a reply. Anyway, thank you for
taking your time off.

Best Regards
Kalyan





>From: Sankaran Kartik Jayanarayanan <kartik at ECE.UTEXAS.EDU>
>Reply-To: List for advaita vedanta as taught by Shri Shankara
><ADVAITA-L at LISTS.ADVAITA-VEDANTA.ORG>
>To: ADVAITA-L at LISTS.ADVAITA-VEDANTA.ORG
>Subject: Re: Vishnu and Shiva
>Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 18:26:52 -0600
>
>On Tue, 11 Mar 2003, kalyan chakravarthy wrote:
>
>[..]
>
> > >Firstly, there is no contradiction in saying that
> > >rudra gained his strength from himself.
> >
> > 1.Such a conclusion being obvious would waste the scriptural statement.
> > There is no need to look at the scriptures to know the obvious.
>
>So you have no objection.
>
>By the same token, the Veda should also not waste words by repitition,
>since there is no need to know something already known. But the Veda
>repeatedly points out that Brahman ought to be known.
>
> > 2.There is no gaining or losing of anything for brahman.
> >
>
>So we now know that VishhNu is not Brahman, for it is from VishhNu that
>Rudra gains his strength, and nothing gains anything from Brahman :-)
>
>We can discuss academically, but most of my other objections have not been
>answered to from the previous post, and since circular arguments are
>tiring, I will now sign off.
>
>-Kartik


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>From  Tue Mar 11 17:06:59 2003
Message-Id: <TUE.11.MAR.2003.170659.0800.>
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 17:06:59 -0800
Reply-To: sanjay1297 at yahoo.com
To: List for advaita vedanta as taught by Shri Shankara
        <ADVAITA-L at LISTS.ADVAITA-VEDANTA.ORG>
From: Sanjay Verma <sanjay1297 at YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: The sources of authority in Advaita Vedanta
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.53.0303110809440.15896 at samadhi.braincells.com>
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Pranam to all,
In my introduction to Bhagavadgita bhashya, it states:
"It was Shankaracharya who first brought it out into prominence from the vast mass of Mahabharata literature, fixed its contents to the seven hundred verses that now constitute it, and produced the first extant commentary on it. Not only that , he gave it the status of one of the Prasthanas (Foundation Texts), of Vedanta, and the lead he thus gave has been accepted by all succeeding Acharyas of even schools of Vedanta that are opposed to his school."
My question to those in the group have the answer readily available (i.e., I'm not asking for extensive research, even if you point me to a reliable website, it will siffice)... my question is: "What is the comprehensive list of the Prasthanas in Advaita Vedanta?"
Thankfully,
Sanjay


_______________________________________

The journey of a thousand miles begins
with a single step.--Chinese Proverb

_______________________________________


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<P>Pranam to all,
<P>In my introduction to Bhagavadgita bhashya, it states:
<P>"It was Shankaracharya who first brought it out into prominence from the vast mass of Mahabharata literature, fixed its contents to the seven hundred verses that now constitute it, and produced the first extant commentary on it. Not only that , he gave it the status of one of the Prasthanas (Foundation Texts), of Vedanta, and the lead he thus gave has been accepted by all succeeding Acharyas of even schools of Vedanta that are opposed to his school."
<P>My question to those in the group have the answer readily available (i.e., I'm not asking for extensive research, even if you point me to a reliable website, it will siffice)... my question is: "What is the comprehensive list of the Prasthanas in Advaita Vedanta?"
<P>Thankfully,<BR>Sanjay</P><BR><BR>_______________________________________<br><br>The journey of a thousand miles begins<br>with a single step.--Chinese Proverb<br><br>_______________________________________<p><br><hr size=1>Do you Yahoo!?<br>
<a href="http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/wh3/prod/">Yahoo! Web Hosting</a> - establish your business online
--0-1150726388-1047431219=:55192--