[Advaita-l] Query on Ishvara in the Yoga darshana

[Naresh Cuntoor]

>
> Your Sanskrit quote says: sa pUrveShAmapi
> guruH. And when you translated it as
> 'Ishvara is also said to be the Guru of the ancients'
> you had overlooked 'api'. IMO 'api' there is important.......
> If left out, the translation would seem to convey,
> though not explicitly, that Ishvara is also said to be the Guru of the
> ancients, but not anymore.
> The author of the quote was talking of the 'continuity'
> of the His being Guru, may be to convey that this was not
> an subsequently added concept.
>

To quote the complete sutra in question: sa pUrveShAmapi guruH kAlena
anavachChedAt.
With this characteristic, Ishvara is said to be the guru at the
beginning of creation. The api denotes that he is not just the guru
now, but was also at the beginning. This is so because time is
unbroken to him (kAlena anavachChedAt).

Whether there is an api or not, it makes little difference to the
contention of some that the sutras referring to Ishvara are not
PAtanjala.

On an tangential note, your comment about "api" reminds me of a paper
that I saw cited somewhere. It was a paper on the several usages of
api.  I have been meaning to look for this paper for sometime now. But
searching for just "api" without knowing the title of the paper is
challenging. Unsurprisingly, searches for api leads to Application
programming interface!
If anyone knows about the api paper, please send it or its reference to me.



>
> Also, sir, Buddhi is not, stricktly speaking, intellect.
> The English word as defined by them, is a part
> of manas which is different from Buddhi of calssical Indian Texts. Bhddhi is
> a well defined concept, described to be a part of the eight fold
> manifestation of the prakrti)
> There is no equivalent word in English for Buddhi.
> If we use the word 'intellect', then we will not be
> able to mean what they meant by using Buddhi.
>

Point taken. Translation does pose limitations. I was using the
commonly used translation of buddhi as intellect.


-Naresh

> drdbharadwaj at gmail.com
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 7:19 PM, Naresh Cuntoor <nareshpc at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Per Patanjali's yogasutras, Ishvara is considered a special PuruSha.
>> To quote the relevant sutras:
>>
>> "klesha-karma-vipAkAshaiH aparAmRuShTaH puruSha-visheShaH IshvaraH".
>>
>> Ishvara is that special PuruSha who is untouched by the five
>> afflications, deeds and results accruing (according to deeds and
>> vAsanAs).
>>
>> ... "tasya vAchakaH praNavaH"
>> Om is his designator.
>>
>> Ishvara is also said to be the Guru of the ancients (sa pUrveShAmapi
>> guruH ...). He, like other puruShas, is the knower of the intelllect.
>> ("buddheH pratisaMvedI puruShaH" - Vyasa).
>>
>> So, there is no reference to vedantic/paurANic themes of sRuShTi-kartA,
>> etc.
>>
>> Some say, however, that these references to Ishvara are a latter
>> addition to the yogasutras.
>>
>>
>> -Naresh
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 4:17 AM, Ramesh Krishnamurthy
>> <rkmurthy at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > 2009/1/16 Shrinivas Gadkari <sgadkari2001 at yahoo.com>:
>> >>
>> >> This is assuming one wants to use yoga sutras in an integrated and
>> >> constructive manner with gitA, vedanta - take what you feel is
>> >> useful and leave out complicated themes like kaivalya  (if it
>> >> is taken to mean a final goal in itself).
>> >>
>> >
>> > No, I am not talking about integration with gItA or vedAnta but
>> > specifically the position of the classical yoga darshana on Ishvara.
>> > By classical yoga darshana, I mean the system represented collectively
>> > by the yogasUtra-s, the vyAsabhAShya and perhaps the tattvavaishAradI
>> > of vAchaspati mishra.
>> >
>> > According to the above system, which of the following are true for
>> Ishvara:
>> > 1) sAkShI
>> > 2) karmaphaladAtA
>> > 3) sRShTi kartA
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