[Advaita-l] Today Bhagavan Ramanuja Jayanti too
H S Chandramouli
hschandramouli at gmail.com
Sat Apr 25 00:32:41 CDT 2015
Dear Sri Keshava Prasad,
Reg << So then, the locus of avidya as well as vidya is the
antahkaraNa; the locus of the antahkaraNa is the jIva; the locus of
the/a/any/all jIva is mUla-avidya; and finally, the locus of
mUla-avidya is(must be) none other than that ultimate base, brahmavastu.
>> .
I think there is a fundamental flaw in this conclusion as well as the
reasoning leading to this conclusion. You need to define ' jiva “ in your
view. From what you have written you obviously do not consider antahkarana
as part of jiva. Then what is “ jiva “.??
There are other issues as well . For example
<< If we take that 'objective-knowledge'
(knowledge-of-objects-that-can-be-known-through-objectification) are refers
to vRtti-jnaana (like 'ghaTaakaara-vRtti'), then its locus is in the
antahkaraNa - which is therefore the locus for both the said 'vidya' and/or
the 'avidya' thereof. >>
Vidya or Avidya can only be with reference to a sentient entity. They have
no relevance with reference to an inert entity , like a wall for example.
Antahkarana is considered inert in Vedanta. So it cannot by itself be the
locus of Vidya/Avidya.
But perhaps consideration of such issues can wait. The foremost issue you
need to deliberate upon in your argument in my view is the definition of
jiva.
Regards
On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 6:45 PM, Keshava PRASAD Halemane via Advaita-l <
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> namastE
> Let me share here below my 'whatever thinking' on the problem of
> "locus-of-avidya" : IMHO: First, let me clarify one thing - by 'locus' i
> think we mean 'immediate-locus' and not 'ultimate-locus'; lest it may lead
> into infinite-regress that can be resolved only by basing it on an ultimate
> base/aadhaara = brahmavastu.
> The (immediate)locus of 'avidya' must be the same as the locus of 'vidya'
> as a matter of standard-convention. In a strict sense there cannot be any
> other locus for 'avidya', since 'avidya' refers to the
> 'absence-of-vidya'; the 'absence' of anything can only be referred to the
> same locus wherever one expects/anticipates its 'presence'. Now the
> question is - what is that 'vidya' w.r.t which this 'avidya' is being
> referred to. If we take that 'objective-knowledge'
> (knowledge-of-objects-that-can-be-known-through-objectification) are refers
> to vRtti-jnaana (like 'ghaTaakaara-vRtti'), then its locus is in the
> antahkaraNa - which is therefore the locus for both the said 'vidya' and/or
> the 'avidya' thereof.
> However, if the 'avidya' is referred to the absence of 'brahma-jnaana'
> which itself refers to 'absolute-knowledge' and not any objective-knowledge
> (knowledge-of-objects) then the next question is - does 'brahma-jnaana'
> exist/manifest in the 'antahkaraNa' !? Is it ('brahma-jnaana') only a
> 'vRtti-jnaana' even if one may call it to be 'akhanDaakaaravRtti' !? If
> the answer to that question is YES, to that extent the locus of 'avidya'
> must be the very same 'antahkaraNa'.
> The 'antahkaraNa' being referred to here is associated with that one jIva
> the 'avidya' of which is under question/discussion here. In other words,
> the 'locus' of 'antahkaraNa' itself is the 'jIva' of which the
> 'antahkaraNa' is being talked about.
> To complete the circle, shall we ask the question: what is the 'locus' of
> the 'jIva' or for that matter a/any 'jIva' ? = 'mUla-avidya' (shall we
> say) !?
> It is 'mUla-avidya' that seemingly pervades the 'antahkaraNa'
> and hides-&-corrupts (shall we say) the 'jIva' from its rightful identity
> with brahma-vastu. Why, because (shall we say): no 'mUla-avidya' = no
> 'jIva'; only 'brahmavastu'.
> So then, the locus of avidya as well as vidya is the antahkaraNa;
> the locus of the antahkaraNa is the jIva; the locus of the/a/any/all
> jIva is mUla-avidya; and finally, the locus of mUla-avidya is(must be)
> none other than that ultimate base, brahmavastu.
> Hope that the above reasoning is equally acceptable to a seeker-jIva as
> well as a jIvanmukta-jIva and all others in between.
> praNaamsKeshava Prasad Halemane
>
>
> On Friday, 24 April 2015 4:07 PM, kuntimaddi sadananda via Advaita-l <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>
>
>
> Shree Venkatesh Murthyji -
>
> As I understand - The vivarana school itself differs from Bhamati in this
> regard. Within Advaita tradition there is difference of opinion in terms of
> Locus of Avidya.
>
> Sureswara says in Naishkarmya siddhi that it is Brahman is locus of
> avidya.
>
> Now about Shankara bhagavat paada's position. Please study his bhashyam on
> the 13th ch - kshetrajnam ca api maa viddhi .. sloka where he argues that
> it is not even jiiva that is locus of avidya - it is only anthaH karana
> that is locus. Few months back I wrote an series of articles on this and
> posted to the list, if one is interested.
>
> It is not that Ramanuja did not study advaitic position, there are varying
> positions in the advaita itself. It does not mean Ramanuja's criticism of
> avidya of Advaita is correct. I have discussed this elaborately in my
> Advanced Vedanta talks series which can be accessed at say,
> <
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76XQXj_n-G8&index=147&list=PLWjpkY4mU2RAlFcTU_5G2a1trhbcZUedZ
> >
>
> Ramanuja has focused the issues for us to contemplate - that does not mean
> that one has to accept either Ramanuja's position or even Shankara's
> position, either vivarana's position or Bhamati's position, unless it is
> shruti, yukti and anubhava based.
>
> Hope I am clear.
>
> Hari Om!
> Sadananda
>
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Fri, 4/24/15, Venkatesh Murthy via Advaita-l <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Today Bhagavan Ramanuja Jayanti too
> To: "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> Date: Friday, April 24, 2015, 12:53 AM
>
> Namaste
>
> In the Sri Bhashya Maha
> Siddhanta portion on Ashraya of Avidya -
>
> सा हि
> किमाश्रित्य भ्रमं
> जनयति ? न तावत्
> जीवमाश्रित्य
> अविद्यापरिकल्पितत्वात्
> जीवभावस्य ।
>
> Here Ramanuja is saying Jeeva cannot be the
> Ashraya for Avidyaa
> because Jeeva is
> imagined by Avidyaa only. How can Avidyaa have a base
> in him? Jeeva is imagined by Avidyaa and
> Jeeva has that Avidyaa.
> There is Anyonya
> Ashraya Dosha.
>
> Mandana
> Mishra in Brahma Sidhhi has cleared Ramanuja's doubt.
> यत्तु
> कस्याविद्येति ?
> जीवानामिति ब्रूमः । He has
> given good explanation why
> Jeeva is
> Avidya's Ashraya. There is no Anyonya Ashraya Dosha at
> all.
> Adi Sankara also cleared this same
> doubt in Prasthana Traya Bhashya.
>
> Mandana Mishra and Adi Sankara both were
> earlier than Ramanuja.
>
> Question is - Why Ramanuja was not familiar
> with Brahma Siddhi ? He
> should have checked
> all Purva Paksha Granthas before expressing
> doubts.
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 23, 2015 at 8:48 PM, kuntimaddi
> sadananda via Advaita-l
> <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> wrote:
> > PraNAms to all
> >
> > Today is Bhagavan
> Ramanuja Jayanti too.
> >
> > His Shree Bhashya on Bri Sutra has been
> considered a brilliant analysis where he considers Advaita
> doctrine in terms laghu and mahaa purvapaksha before his
> siddhanta.
> >
> > The
> emphasis on the Sharanaagati as means of moksha forms the
> basis of the Vishishtadvaita darshana which was later
> expanded by Shree Vedanta Deshika.
> >
> > Hari Om!
> > Sadananda
> >
> >
> >
> --------------------------------------------
> > On Thu, 4/23/15, kuntimaddi sadananda kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com
> [advaitin] <advaitin at yahoogroups.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > ON
> Shakara:
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> An exquisite thinker, a brilliant intellect, a
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> Sankara the
> > Upanishads discovered the
> fittest spiritual general...... Be
> > he
> in the halls of the Upanishad commentaries or in the
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> Gita discourses or in the open flowery fields
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> Swami Chinmayananda
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