[Advaita-l] What is avidyA vR^itti as against antaHkaraNa vR^itti?

[H S Chandramouli]

Dear Sri Sadananda Ji,

Though the subject is closed, since you had mentioned earlier that you were
following the talks on Vichara Sagara by Swami Paramarthananda , I could
not resist the temptation to draw your attention to the reference made in
the latest talk delivered by Swami Paramarthananda yesterday ( on 08 August
) concerning Akhandakara Vritti as well as contribution of Vedanta
Paribhasha to Vichara Sagara. The talk can be accessed at the link <<
http://www.mediafire.com/download/os2dsmje1i6528k/VS-158-8thAug15.mp3 >> .

Pranams and Regards

Chandramouli

On Tue, Jul 28, 2015 at 12:30 PM, H S Chandramouli <hschandramouli at gmail.com
> wrote:

> Vichara Sagara itself follows the definitions as given in Vedanta
> Paribhasha. Sri Swami Paramarthananda Ji himself mentions this in his
> current lectures , though I do not remember off hand the specific talk in
> which he has mentioned as such. Perhaps one of the other members who are
> following the talks could furnish this info. I will certainly furnish other
> references perhaps a little later as I am going out of town and wont be
> having access to my mails for a few days.
>
> Regards
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: kuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com>
> Date: Tue, Jul 28, 2015 at 12:05 PM
> Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] What is avidyA vR^itti as against antaHkaraNa
> vR^itti?
> To: H S Chandramouli <hschandramouli at gmail.com>
>
>
> Can you give me some references. Thanks
> Sada
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Tue, 7/28/15, H S Chandramouli <hschandramouli at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>  Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] What is avidyA vR^itti as against antaHkaraNa
> vR^itti?
>  To: "kuntimaddi sadananda" <kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com>
>  Date: Tuesday, July 28, 2015, 2:30 AM
>
>  I may also
>  add that vedantic literature generally adopt the terms
>  antahkarana vritti and avidya vritti as defined in Vedanta
>  Paribhasha and Advaita Sidhi.
>  Regards
>  On Tue, Jul 28, 2015 at
>  11:42 AM, H S Chandramouli <hschandramouli at gmail.com>
>  wrote:
>  Sri Sadananda Ji,
>  Basically the discussion so far
>  pertained to what is presented in Vedanta Paribhasha and
>  Advaita Sidhi. Very different from what you have considered
>  here. I may be wrong.
>  Pranams and Regards
>  Chandramouli
>  On Tue, Jul 28, 2015 at 10:15 AM,
>  kuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com>
>  wrote:
>  PraNAms
>
>
>
>  Just for some thought,  but not to confuse.
>
>
>
>  There are several aspects involved - pramaa vs bhramaa,
>  smRiti and perception, and whether smRiti comes under
>  separate pramaana. Anandaji also brought in - the internal
>  perceptions - such as emotions- anger, happiness, or certain
>  moods of the mind.
>
>
>
>  Looking from a rational point - The perception for the first
>  time (I think V. Advaita - classifies as indeterminate - not
>  sure about tarkikaas) there is no role  of smRiti. and no
>  jaati also here. When a child sees a cow for the first time,
>  a white cow, and mother says - my dear this is a cow- now
>  the cognition of cow and knowledge of the cognition as cow,
>  as supported by aapta vaakya follows - otherwise just
>  cognition of an object without a name.  Here pramaa and
>  pramaata are involved at antaHkarana level. From my point,
>  all cognitions are attributive in the sense that senses can
>  only gather (reflective) attributes of the object perceived
>  since original attributes are inseparable from their locus -
>  and vishaya - the cow remains fortunately outside!
>
>
>
>  The first cognition forms a memory sometimes being referred
>  to as samskaara or vaasaana, hence part of kaaraNa shareera
>  - this may be called as avidyaa vRitti.
>
>
>
>  When the child sees another cow which is black, and the
>  mother says this is also cow, - cognition, recognition as
>  well as instincts of jaati are coming into play.
>
>
>
>  Hence even in perception for the second time on - smRiti is
>  coming into picture in recognition part. Hence perception
>  involves both cognition and recognition to some extent or
>  memory is playing a role in the knowledge. Hence avidhyaa
>  vRitti or vaasana samskaara coming in the recognition
>  process and not a cognitive level.Hence we have both
>  antaHkarana vRitti and avidyaa vRitti due to vaasanaas or
>  samskaara or memory.
>
>
>
>  In the sRiti alone without cognition - as someone
>  remembering a cow - then there is no cognition but only
>  internal perception - if we call this as perception.
>
>
>
>  Bhranti comes when the cognition is incomplete (since
>  cognition is mostly attributive and attributives are
>  incomplete due to absence of required secondary conditions
>  such as light etc) and smRitti say snake while seeing a
>  rope.
>
>
>
>  smRiti is some have classified as antaHkarana vRitti while
>  some others as avidya or kaarNa shareera vRitit.
>
>
>
>  With jaati only the general attribute say cowness of the cow
>  comes into picture - this happens only after second perhaps
>  reinforced cognition-recognition cycle.
>
>
>
>  Hari Om!
>
>  Sadananda
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  --------------------------------------------
>
>  On Mon, 7/27/15, H S Chandramouli via Advaita-l <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
>  wrote:
>
>
>
>   Subject: ***UNCHECKED*** Re: [Advaita-l] What is avidyA
>  vR^itti as against     antaHkaraNa     vR^itti?
>
>   To: "Anand Hudli" <anandhudli at hotmail.com>,
>  "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
>
>   Date: Monday, July 27, 2015, 11:32 PM
>
>
>
>   Dear  Sri Anand Ji,
>
>
>
>   Is not sopadika bhranti (
>
>   सोपाधिक भ्रान्ति )
>  considered
>
>   avidya vritti ,
>
>   even though it can be
>
>   classified as objective knowledge ? Please clarify.
>
>
>
>   Regards and Pranams
>
>
>
>   On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 11:10
>
>   PM, Anand Hudli via Advaita-l <
>
>   advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
>
>   wrote:
>
>
>
>   > An attempt to
>
>   answer some questions.
>
>   > The difference
>
>   between objective knowledge and subjective knowledge
>  lies
>
>   in
>
>   > the capability of the former type of
>
>   knowledge to be *directly*
>
>   >
>
>   (aparokSheNa) conveyed or used in dealings (vyavahAra)
>  with
>
>   people other
>
>   > than the person who has
>
>   this knowledge. For example, if you see a pot, you
>
>   > may point it out to others, "this is
>
>   a pot", and they too will have the
>
>   >
>
>   same direct perception of the pot. On the other hand, if
>  you
>
>   feel happy,
>
>   > you cannot *directly*
>
>   convey this feeling to me. There is no way for me to
>
>   > *directly* feel what you are feeling. You
>
>   may express your feeling with
>
>   > some act,
>
>   words, etc. that allows me to understand your feeling,
>  but
>
>   this
>
>   > only gives me an *indirect*
>
>   knowledge. Coming to illusions such as a
>
>   > silver-nacre, the advaitasiddhi holds that
>
>   two cognitions are involved
>
>   > here. In
>
>   the (erroneous) cognition, "this is silver",
>  the
>
>   "this" (idam)
>
>   > part is
>
>   objective, but the "silver" (rajatam) part is
>
>   subjective. Why? When
>
>   > a person seeing
>
>   illusory silver says, "this is silver",
>  another
>
>   person in
>
>   > the vicinity will certainly
>
>   see some object as the first person did, but
>
>   > he/she may not see the object as silver.
>
>   It is possible the second person
>
>   > is not
>
>   affected by the illusion, and may, in fact, see the
>  nacre,
>
>   not
>
>   > silver. So the agreement between
>
>   the first person and the second person is
>
>   > that there is "something" out
>
>   there. The knowledge of "something" is
>
>   > objective and is common to both persons.
>
>   However, the knowledge of "silver"
>
>   > is restricted to the first person who is
>
>   affected by the illusion. The
>
>   > second
>
>   person may have the knowledge of nacre, not silver. This
>  is
>
>   why it
>
>   > is said avidyAvRtti can be
>
>   prAtibhAsika or vyAvahArika.
>
>   > If we look
>
>   "under the hood" and try to understand what
>  is
>
>   anataHkaraNa
>
>   > vRtti and what is
>
>   avidyAvRtti, it is important to note that objective
>
>   > knowledge, called "pramA", is
>
>   gained through a pramANa (means of knowledge,
>
>   > such as perception, inference, scriptures,
>
>   etc), while subjective
>
>   > knowledge,
>
>   including the prAtibhAsika type, is not so obtained. In
>  the
>
>   case
>
>   > of subjective knowledge, the
>
>   witness-consciousness (sAkShicaitanya)
>
>   >
>
>   cognizes it without the need for antaHkaraNavRtti.  In
>
>   contrast, objective
>
>   > knowledge gained
>
>   through a pramANa results in the modification of the
>
>   > antaHkaraNa (mind), called
>
>   antaHkaraNavRtti. MahamahopAdhyAya Abhyankar has
>
>   > remarked in his commentary on the
>
>   siddhAntabindu (dashashlokI):
>
>   >
>
>   apramAjnAnaM na manovRttirUpaM kiMtu avidyAvRttirUpaM
>
>   sAkShyAshrayam.
>
>   >
>
>   >
>
>   > Anand
>
>   >
>
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