[Advaita-l] Question about Sri Vidyaranya's JMV & jnani matra

V Subrahmanian v.subrahmanian at gmail.com
Tue Mar 26 05:39:27 EDT 2019

On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 12:46 PM Bhaskar YR <bhaskar.yr at in.abb.com> wrote:

> //Some days later the police caught the thieves and brought them before
> Sri Bhagavan, and an officer asked Him to identify the one who had beaten
> Him on that night. Sri Bhagavan at once replied with a smile, 'Find out
> whom I beat [in a previous birth], for it is he who has beaten me now!'. He
> never denounced the criminal!//
> This is what traditional Advaita would say about prarabdha karma for a
> Jnani. Swami Vidyaranya has said this alone. It is not for the bystanders
> to say this; it is the Jnani himself who says this.
> praNAms Sri Subbu prabhuji
> Hare Krishna
> As you know,  we both have unwritten agreement that we should not discuss
> vedAnta as we are,  in certain very important aspects of advaita not on the
> same platform 😊  So, below quote, which was duly supplied by my hari
> bandhu ( he often helps me when I am in office and need info. From web) is
> not for any debate or further discussion, just want to share that when
> bhagavaan ramaNa specifically being asked about jnAni’s prArabdha his
> answer was quite unambiguous. Here is that relevant quote :

Dear Bhaskar ji,

To one of my quotes of Ramana's words, you are giving another quote that
you think contradicts my quote of Ramana. But all this is actually showing
Ramana in poor light, as someone who contradicts himself. So let me add to
this 'damage':



*Question:* Does a jnani in the body remain visible?

*Ramana:* Why not?

*Question:* Body is the reflection of the mind. There ought to be
modifications because of it.

*Ramana:* In whose view should a jnani's body have a change?

*Question:* To the outside view.

*Ramana:* Then a jnani ought to be invisible? All who wrote books, lived
and moved are ajnanis [those who are ignorant of their true nature]. Is
that so? [laughing] Does the jnani himself feel oppressed by the body? Does
he need a certificate from others by their not seeing his body?


So here we see Ramana saying the opposite of what you quoted him as saying.
Also, Ramana has said: There is no Jnani; there is only Jnanam (Brahman).

One can easily see that this is said from the 'na nirodhi no
chotpatti.....' paramarthataa state.

We can end up saying: Even what is 'said' to be stated by Ramana is only
ajnanis' imagination; in fact there is no person at all called Ramana, that
is also ajnani's imagination. And the robbers raiding the Ashram, Ramana
getting a blow or two from them, and what he said about it later, all are
only imaginations of ajnani-s. They never happened at all.


> // quote//
> *Master:* Yes, Ishwara and the jnani are the same because they are free
> from "I" and "mine". The jnani is himself Ishwara, the totality of the
> jivas [individual souls] and also the cosmos.
> *Question:* Bhagavan says that when one attains enlightenment all the
> three karmas [sanchita, prarabdha and agamya] cease to be. But in *Kaivalya
> Navanitam* it is stated that the jnani will experience only prarabdha
> karma [karma being worked out in this lifetime]. Why does it say this?"
> *Ramana:* Prarabdha is the rule prior to the attainment of
> Self-realisation. As such, even after the attainment of Self-realisation, a
> jnani appears to be experiencing prarabdha in the sight of onlookers. There
> are several examples which are commonly used to explain this: an electric
> fan goes on spinning for some time even after it is switched off; a burnt
> rope looks like a rope but it cannot be used to tie anything; a tree that
> has been felled looks just like a living tree but it is no longer alive;
> peas which are roasted still look like peas but they cannot sprout.
> The prarabdha of a jnani can be compared to examples such as these. When
> other people look at a jnani it seems to them that he is experiencing
> prarabdha, but from the jnani's own point of view there is no prarabdha at
> all.
> *Question:* In the hindu scriptures it is stated that even the jivamukta
> [liberated while still alive] will behave according to his prarabdha karma.
> Why is Bhagavan telling us that a jnani [one who is enlightened] has no
> prarabdha?
> *Ramana:* For the jnani, there is neither scriptures nor prarabdha.
> Questions like this have no relevance for the jnani. All these rules in the
> scriptures were created only for the ajnanis [those who are not
> enlightened]. Let me give you an example. Let us say that a man has three
> wives. When the man dies who will agree with us if we say that only two of
> his former wives are widows. It is not correct that all three of them are
> widows? Likewise, for the jnani all the three kinds of karma are
> non-existent. Prarabdha is only for those who see this problem and ask
> question about it.
> //unquote//
> I know according to you this is not in line with traditional thinking.
> But bhagavan atleast in this context quite clear in his stand if not he is
> an authority in orthodox Advaita sampradaya.
> Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
> bhaskar

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