[Advaita-l] Proof for 84 lakhs of birth

[V Subrahmanian]

On Sat, Feb 27, 2021 at 6:44 PM Indira Sastry <sastryindira at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Namasthe Subbuji
> Thank you so much for your reply. With all due respects to you, I don't
> have the same respect for Prabhupada, as he was our Shankara Bhagavatpada
> hater. He ridiculed our Acharya so badly. So, I don't take his word as an
> authority.
>

I understand your sentiments.  However, looking at the way Bhagavatpada
himself has set an example, it would be amazing to see that he has not
hesitated to openly applaud the opponent when the credit is due.  For
example, the Sankhya system has been heavily censured and refuted by our
Acharya. Yet, He says about them:  They are adepts in classification of the
tattva-s that constitute the observed world.  The Bauddha comes for severe
criticism by the Vedantin. Yet Shankara softens when he observes, while
enumerating the doctrinal points of the Bauddha, the ephemerality of the
world, the binding nature of sense objects, etc. listed by the Bauddha,
'who indeed would disagree with these?'.  Shankara has explicitly stated
the maxim: para matam apratishiddham, anumatam bhavati = the opponent's
points, when they do not contradict with our system, they are admissible.
 So, while I was aware of what you have stated about Prabhupada while
copying and citing here, I had the attitude of Bhagavatpada in mind.  Hence
alone I cited that here.  That too, in the absence of the direct Purana
statements.  Now that Sri Venkatesh Murthy has provided the Purana
references, we have no issues.

regards
subbu


> Thanking you
> Regards
>
> Indira Sastry
> सत्यानंदः अंतरतः विद्यते
> True happiness lies within
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 26, 2021 at 10:58 PM V Subrahmanian <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Feb 27, 2021 at 5:19 AM Indira Sastry via Advaita-l <
>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Namasthe Sarvebhya:
>>> I am just copying someone's reply here:
>>> My question is: we all quote that to get human birth we go through 84
>>> lakhs
>>> of janma in different yonis. What is the proof for this? I know
>>> Kanakadasa
>>> has written that in a song. I am not looking for answers like in a song.
>>> I
>>> am looking for the authentic proof. The knowledgeable people in the group
>>> could throw light on this please.
>>>
>>
>> See this page:  https://prabhupadabooks.com/d.php?qg=2390
>>
>> "There are 900,000 species living in the water. There are also 2,000,000
>> non-moving living entities (*sthāvara
>> <https://prabhupadabooks.com/d/sthavara>*) such as trees and plants.
>> There are also 1,100,000 species of insects and reptiles, and there are
>> 1,000,000 species of birds. As far as quadrupeds are concerned there are
>> 3,000,000 varieties, and there are 400,000 human species." Some of these
>> species may exist on one planet and not on another, but in any case within
>> all the planets of the universe-and even in the sun-there are living
>> entities.
>>
>> They ask, "How are you so much sure about 8,400,000 species?"
>> Prabhupāda: Because we have heard from authority. As you are asking
>> assurance from me, so I give you the knowledge from where I have heard. You
>> want to hear from me. I have heard from authority. That's all. What is the
>> difficulty? Why you are asking me? You want to hear from me. So I have also
>> heard from authority. This is the statement. You take it.
>>
>> Follow the dialogue.  There may or may not be scriptural authority cited
>> here.  It could be in some purana.
>>
>> regards
>> subbu
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> Thanks a lot.
>>> Dhanyavada:
>>> Indira Sastry
>>> सत्यानंदः अंतरतः विद्यते
>>> True happiness lies within.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Feb 26, 2021 at 7:23 PM Sudhakar Kabra via Advaita-l <
>>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> >  Pls read inbetween:
>>> > My question is…
>>> >
>>> > …in the next Life
>>> >
>>> > Does the same Jiva A1 & A2 reincarnate?
>>> >
>>> > If so, then A1 will have to inherit prarabdha “x” & A2 inherits
>>> prarabdha
>>> > “y”.  This leads to a finite amount of Jivas. How can there be a finite
>>> > number of Jivas ?
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Jivas are all living beings. There are 84 lac yonis and migration in
>>> > between them is also possible.So it is not a simple linear
>>> relationship as
>>> > you mention. Humans can take animal births and vice versa.There is no
>>> way
>>> > logic can fathom that.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > If not, then there is no specific identity traversal, hence while
>>> attaining
>>> > Moksha who is Liberated?
>>> >
>>> > The jiva who attains moksha gets liberated. Normal rule is via human
>>> birth
>>> > but there are instances and exceptions otherwise.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Since there is reincarnation,there must be a certain identity traversal
>>> > between lives. Since face, colour, region, etc are different, we
>>> consider
>>> > that the “karmas” as the determining factor. But if
>>> >
>>> > “By definition, a jiva is the bundle of karma and its effects that
>>> persists
>>> > from life to life.”
>>> >
>>> > What determines this bundle.
>>> >
>>> > The present karma (kriyamana karma) determines the future bundle.
>>> >
>>> > Of course, we could believe that these karma phalams are determined by
>>> > ISWARA and hence ISWARA is kartha, it is not deterministic. But, is
>>> there
>>> > any other alternatives to tackle this?
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Ishwara is not a karta. There is no kartritwa bhavana or else he can be
>>> > termed partial. It is the law of karma that functions meticulously
>>> under
>>> > him.
>>> > Is Advaita purely based on faith ?
>>> > Without faith nothing is possible. It keeps you going on this life
>>> > journey.As one progresses he can see milestones going as mentioned in
>>> > shashtras .When knowledge fails, faith takes over.
>>> >
>>> > Regards,S.Kabra
>>> Thanks
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Archives: https://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
>>> http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.advaita
>>>
>>> To unsubscribe or change your options:
>>> https://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l
>>>
>>> For assistance, contact:
>>> listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org
>>>
>>