[Advaita-l] Perception in lightning

[H S Chandramouli]

Namaste.

It could be that this simple fact was being missed out over decades during
debates to account for observable scientific phenomena !!!!

Regards

Chandramouli

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On Tue, May 11, 2021 at 3:19 PM H S Chandramouli <hschandramouli at gmail.com>
wrote:

> This only clarifies that no epistemological changes are called for while
> accounting for observable scientific phenomena
>
> Regards
>
> Chandramouli
>
>
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> On Tue, May 11, 2021 at 3:16 PM H S Chandramouli <hschandramouli at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Namaste.
>>
>> The current position is that vishaya for the sense organs are rUpa and
>> shabda only. For ease of understanding perhaps,  they are referred to in
>> texts like VP as objects. Hence no change is required. That is what I
>> meant. Only proper understanding is needed.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Chandramouli
>>
>>
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>>
>> On Tue, May 11, 2021 at 3:05 PM Venkatraghavan S <agnimile at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Namaste
>>> It is not to account for exceptions per se. The idea is to preserve as
>>> much of the advaita epistemological framework as possible, while accounting
>>> for observable scientific phenomena.
>>>
>>> That being the case, what was suggested is that if we change the concept
>>> of what constitutes a viShaya to the subject (the object is not the
>>> viShaya, light / sound is), one can preserve the existing framework while
>>> addressing the challenge of viewing objects that have ceased to exist.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Venkatraghavan
>>>
>>> On Tue, 11 May 2021, 09:47 H S Chandramouli, <hschandramouli at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Namaste.
>>>>
>>>> Reg  << Thus all the terms related to viShayAvacChinna chaitanya can
>>>> be recast to mean prabhAvacChinna chaitanya / shabdAvacChinna chaitanya etc
>>>> >>,
>>>>
>>>> There is perhaps no need to recast anything. The present rendering
>>>> covers practically all the commonly  met with experiences. We are perhaps
>>>> considering exceptions. Hence a general reference to what has been
>>>> clarified would  be enough to cover such exceptions
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>> Chandramouli.
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>> On Tue, May 11, 2021 at 1:22 PM Venkatraghavan S <agnimile at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Namaste
>>>>> I was going to suggest this well. The object that is perceived is not
>>>>> the physical object itself but light / sound emanating from it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thus without needing the postulation of the mind to move towards a
>>>>> physical object elsewhere, one could postulate that the light / sound
>>>>> itself is the viShaya. Thus all the terms related to viShayAvacChinna
>>>>> chaitanya can be recast to mean prabhAvacChinna chaitanya / shabdAvacChinna
>>>>> chaitanya etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thus, the viShaya adhiShThAna chaitanya can still be the prakAshaka,
>>>>> there is difference between paroksha and pratyaksha on account of the
>>>>> prabhA / shabda making contact with the eyes, there is possible for bhrama
>>>>> because of ajnAna in the viShaya (light/sound) avacChinna chaitanya.
>>>>>
>>>>> And as Sri Chandramouli says, this aligns with the anubhava of not
>>>>> experiencing the exact quantum of distance in the perception of sound and
>>>>> light even when one knows in general that it is far / near.
>>>>>
>>>>> That is simpler I feel and requires less items to postulate such as
>>>>> the mind being able to travel back in time to see distant galaxies etc.
>>>>> While it may be true for yogis, to say that everyone does that naturally
>>>>> does not sit well.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Venkatraghavan
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, 11 May 2021, 08:17 H S Chandramouli via Advaita-l, <
>>>>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Namaste.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The following could perhaps form the basis for a resolution of the
>>>>>> issue.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What is cognized through vision is the rUpa (color) of the Vishaya. It
>>>>>> could be considered as the light enveloping the object or emanating
>>>>>> from it
>>>>>> (in the case of lightning for example) as the case may be. While
>>>>>> ‘being
>>>>>>  distant’ is also perceived in the cognition, the actual location is
>>>>>> not
>>>>>> when the distance is large. Same with shabda or sound. While the
>>>>>> sound is
>>>>>> cognized as well as it being ‘distant’, exact distance is not
>>>>>> involved in
>>>>>> the cognition.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We can now consider ‘where’  the cognition takes place when all the
>>>>>> three
>>>>>> involved in the cognition; namely antahkarana vritti,rUpa or light
>>>>>> enveloping/emnating from the object, and shabda or sound emanating
>>>>>> from the
>>>>>> object;  all three are in motion, and the distances between the
>>>>>> objects and
>>>>>> the experience are large.The location where visual cognition takes
>>>>>> place
>>>>>> can be considered as the location where the rUpa or light enveloping
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> object or emanating from it is coincident with the antahkarana vritti
>>>>>> issuing forth through the eyes. Similarly for the cognition of sound.
>>>>>> These
>>>>>> locations need not be the same as their origin. When distances
>>>>>> involved are
>>>>>> negligible compared to their speeds, location of cognition will be
>>>>>> practically the same as the object. When distances are large, they
>>>>>> could be
>>>>>> quite different.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This explains the reason for cognition taking place at different
>>>>>> times in
>>>>>> case of lightning and thunder for example. This would also cover
>>>>>> anomalies
>>>>>> in respect of cognition of very distant stars/planets etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>> Chandramouli
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>>
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