[Advaita-l] Perception in lightning

[Raghav Kumar Dwivedula]

Namaste Chandramouliji



On Tue, 11 May, 2021, 3:50 pm H S Chandramouli via Advaita-l, <
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:

> Namaste.
>
> It could be that this simple fact was being missed out over decades during
> debates to account for observable scientific phenomena !!!!
>
> Regards
>
> Chandramouli
>

By simple fact do you mean the fact that viShaya should be understood as
rupa/shabda and not the object like ghaTa etc?

I sometimes get the mails out of sequence so making sure I get what you are
saying.

>
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> On Tue, May 11, 2021 at 3:19 PM H S Chandramouli <hschandramouli at gmail.com
> >
> wrote:
>
> > This only clarifies that no epistemological changes are called for while
> > accounting for observable scientific phenomena
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Chandramouli
> >
> >
> > <
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> >
> > On Tue, May 11, 2021 at 3:16 PM H S Chandramouli <
> hschandramouli at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Namaste.
> >>
> >> The current position is that vishaya for the sense organs are rUpa and
> >> shabda only. For ease of understanding perhaps,  they are referred to in
> >> texts like VP as objects. Hence no change is required. That is what I
> >> meant. Only proper understanding is needed.
> >>
> >> Regards
> >>
> >> Chandramouli
> >>
> >>
> >> <
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> >>
> >> On Tue, May 11, 2021 at 3:05 PM Venkatraghavan S <agnimile at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Namaste
> >>> It is not to account for exceptions per se. The idea is to preserve as
> >>> much of the advaita epistemological framework as possible, while
> accounting
> >>> for observable scientific phenomena.
> >>>
> >>> That being the case, what was suggested is that if we change the
> concept
> >>> of what constitutes a viShaya to the subject (the object is not the
> >>> viShaya, light / sound is), one can preserve the existing framework
> while
> >>> addressing the challenge of viewing objects that have ceased to exist.
> >>>
> >>> Regards,
> >>> Venkatraghavan
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, 11 May 2021, 09:47 H S Chandramouli, <hschandramouli at gmail.com
> >
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Namaste.
> >>>>
> >>>> Reg  << Thus all the terms related to viShayAvacChinna chaitanya can
> >>>> be recast to mean prabhAvacChinna chaitanya / shabdAvacChinna
> chaitanya etc
> >>>> >>,
> >>>>
> >>>> There is perhaps no need to recast anything. The present rendering
> >>>> covers practically all the commonly  met with experiences. We are
> perhaps
> >>>> considering exceptions. Hence a general reference to what has been
> >>>> clarified would  be enough to cover such exceptions
> >>>>
> >>>> Regards
> >>>>
> >>>> Chandramouli.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> <
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> >>>>
> >>>> On Tue, May 11, 2021 at 1:22 PM Venkatraghavan S <agnimile at gmail.com>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Namaste
> >>>>> I was going to suggest this well. The object that is perceived is not
> >>>>> the physical object itself but light / sound emanating from it.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thus without needing the postulation of the mind to move towards a
> >>>>> physical object elsewhere, one could postulate that the light / sound
> >>>>> itself is the viShaya. Thus all the terms related to viShayAvacChinna
> >>>>> chaitanya can be recast to mean prabhAvacChinna chaitanya /
> shabdAvacChinna
> >>>>> chaitanya etc.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thus, the viShaya adhiShThAna chaitanya can still be the prakAshaka,
> >>>>> there is difference between paroksha and pratyaksha on account of the
> >>>>> prabhA / shabda making contact with the eyes, there is possible for
> bhrama
> >>>>> because of ajnAna in the viShaya (light/sound) avacChinna chaitanya.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> And as Sri Chandramouli says, this aligns with the anubhava of not
> >>>>> experiencing the exact quantum of distance in the perception of
> sound and
> >>>>> light even when one knows in general that it is far / near.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> That is simpler I feel and requires less items to postulate such as
> >>>>> the mind being able to travel back in time to see distant galaxies
> etc.
> >>>>> While it may be true for yogis, to say that everyone does that
> naturally
> >>>>> does not sit well.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Regards,
> >>>>> Venkatraghavan
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Tue, 11 May 2021, 08:17 H S Chandramouli via Advaita-l, <
> >>>>> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Namaste.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The following could perhaps form the basis for a resolution of the
> >>>>>> issue.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> What is cognized through vision is the rUpa (color) of the Vishaya.
> It
> >>>>>> could be considered as the light enveloping the object or emanating
> >>>>>> from it
> >>>>>> (in the case of lightning for example) as the case may be. While
> >>>>>> ‘being
> >>>>>>  distant’ is also perceived in the cognition, the actual location is
> >>>>>> not
> >>>>>> when the distance is large. Same with shabda or sound. While the
> >>>>>> sound is
> >>>>>> cognized as well as it being ‘distant’, exact distance is not
> >>>>>> involved in
> >>>>>> the cognition.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> We can now consider ‘where’  the cognition takes place when all the
> >>>>>> three
> >>>>>> involved in the cognition; namely antahkarana vritti,rUpa or light
> >>>>>> enveloping/emnating from the object, and shabda or sound emanating
> >>>>>> from the
> >>>>>> object;  all three are in motion, and the distances between the
> >>>>>> objects and
> >>>>>> the experience are large.The location where visual cognition takes
> >>>>>> place
> >>>>>> can be considered as the location where the rUpa or light enveloping
> >>>>>> the
> >>>>>> object or emanating from it is coincident with the antahkarana
> vritti
> >>>>>> issuing forth through the eyes. Similarly for the cognition of
> sound.
> >>>>>> These
> >>>>>> locations need not be the same as their origin. When distances
> >>>>>> involved are
> >>>>>> negligible compared to their speeds, location of cognition will be
> >>>>>> practically the same as the object. When distances are large, they
> >>>>>> could be
> >>>>>> quite different.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> This explains the reason for cognition taking place at different
> >>>>>> times in
> >>>>>> case of lightning and thunder for example. This would also cover
> >>>>>> anomalies
> >>>>>> in respect of cognition of very distant stars/planets etc.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Regards
> >>>>>> Chandramouli
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>>>
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