[Advaita-l] ***UNCHECKED*** Re: [advaitin] Re: Analysis of Standpoints

[H S Chandramouli]

Namaskaram.

A small correction to my previous post

Please read  **experiential Ananda** for **experiential anubhava**.

Regret the error.

Regards

On Tue, Dec 13, 2022 at 4:25 PM H S Chandramouli <hschandramouli at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Namaskaram.
>
> There is no vyAvahArika or pAramArthika viewpoint  of a jnAni in my
> understanding. The nature of a jnAni is as follows in my understanding.
>
> For an ajnAni, the *I* sense identifies itself very strongly with the
> antahkaraNa or BMI. I am not elaborating as it is unnecessary. For a jnAni,
> there are two states possible. In one state, his *I* sense completely
> dissociates itself from the antahkaraNa or BMI and *identifies*  itself
>  with Brahman. This is his state of nirvikalpa samAdhi. There is no
> perception of duality. But there is really no *experiential anubhava*
>  either in such a state. At other times, the *I* sense of the jnAni
> identifies itself with the antahkaraNa or BMI, but such identification is
> very very weak. He perceives duality no doubt, but with very little
> association with the duality. His understanding is one of  sarvAtmabhAva
> and he enjoys great Ananda in this state. Experiences of Sages
> Vamadeva/Trishnku /Sthitaprajna  etc  fall in this category. This is the
> experiential jnAna phala of a jnAni. He can and does interact with the
> world in such a state, and is perhaps what you have termed vyAvahArika
> standpoint. Since the identification with BMI is very weak, there is no
> resultant karma phala associated with any of his actions. Hence there is no
> rebirth for him.
>
> This in brief is my understanding.
> Regards
>
> On Tue, Dec 13, 2022 at 3:15 PM putran M <putranm4 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Namaskaram,
>>
>>
>>> to insist on as the only standpoint that constitutes truth. The
>>> "traditional" side (as I understand) accepts the paramarthika standpoint
>>> but does not negate absolutely (as being *only* adhyasa) the
>>> vyavaharika standpoint.
>>>
>>>
>> Analogy for two-standpoint perspective: Consider "stone". There is a
>> paramarthika standpoint where there is only Stone and naught else. (This
>> should not be confused as "Duality exists but is not cognized or lost in
>> some other higher Cognition". Duality is simply asat in paramarthika).
>> There is a vyavaharika standpoint where the statue nama-rupa appearance is
>> posited in the stone and (for the jnani) the adhishtana stone is manifest
>> as Statue. The ajnani starts talking of the hands and eyes as distinct
>> realities; the jnani sees only stone appearing as All. The statue-cognition
>> for both jnani and ajnani is not simply due to adhyasa that has to vanish
>> upon realizing I am seeing Stone only. It denotes a lower order of reality.
>>
>> thollmelukaalkizhu
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> thollmelukaalkizhu
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Dec 13, 2022 at 2:17 AM H S Chandramouli <
>>>> hschandramouli at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Namaste.
>>>>>
>>>>> Reg  << The issue as I understand is whether a duality of cognition
>>>>> can be admitted in spite of and alongside the knowledge of nondual Self >>,
>>>>>
>>>>> Shruti is the authority in this regard and it has adequately addressed
>>>>>  the issue. It lists the experiences of Sages Vamadeva, Trishanku (in TU),
>>>>> the jnAni who exclaims **ahamanna….ahamannAdah…** in TU etc  which address
>>>>> the issue unambiguously. Such a duality of cognition is admitted. Where
>>>>>  then is the doubt?
>>>>> Regards
>>>>>
>>>>> On Monday, December 12, 2022 at 12:24:27 PM UTC+5:30 putranm4 wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The swamiji explains their viewpoint on adhyasa between minutes 10
>>>>>> and 15.
>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfB6BmYrBqU&list=PLMddRSWoHnQY9kX3hpmMgw2WZg0b0fJ82
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One cannot unambiguously tell whether he thinks these statements
>>>>>> contradict the traditionalist's position.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We all agree that adhyasa does not exist for the atma ("from His
>>>>>> standpoint"), and vanishes when awareness turns towards it (or aligns with
>>>>>> paramarthika standpoint). We agree that for the knower, the Self alone is
>>>>>> the adhishtana of all cognition. The issue as I understand is whether a
>>>>>> duality of cognition can be admitted in spite of and alongside the
>>>>>> knowledge of nondual Self, and the implications thereafter: Like, Two
>>>>>> standpoints: 1. Brahman 2. Brahman+Maya; Maya (and nama-rupa) mithya,
>>>>>> Brahman sathya. etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> thollmelukaalkizhu
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, Dec 11, 2022 at 9:59 PM putran M <putr... at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Namaskaram,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> “ so long as he [jnani] sees the duality”
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Here, it should be obvious that the duality mentioned as being seen
>>>>>>> by the jnani is of the movie-appearance category ( affirming cognition of
>>>>>>> nama-rupa multiplicity), sans the (ignorance) belief in its contents that
>>>>>>> the ajnani has. According to this strict viewpoint, even such a rudimentary
>>>>>>> acknowledgment of nama-rupa (seer-seen divide) *dualistic*
>>>>>>> appearance belongs to vyavaharika and corresponds to *dualistic*
>>>>>>> association of Maya in Brahman. The negation of such vyavaharika is not
>>>>>>> done by calling it adhyasa on paramarthika; rather it belongs to a lower
>>>>>>> level of ‘reality’ that is mithya from the standpoint of the Jnani in
>>>>>>> vyavaharika.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> thollmelukaalkizhu
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Dec 12, 2022 at 12:44 AM putran M <putr... at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Namaskaram,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Compiled some thoughts. Attaching as a file.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> thollmelukaalkizhu
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>>> Groups "advaitin" group.
>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>>>> an email to advaitin+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/advaitin/78d36674-e5b4-46f1-bc85-d04eb9819105n%40googlegroups.com
>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/advaitin/78d36674-e5b4-46f1-bc85-d04eb9819105n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>>> .
>>>>>
>>>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "advaitin" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to advaitin+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/advaitin/CAKqm3-ovjpr2K1mR6dS2bF_ytrmDHT9pCJSQDWwAz3p0y8SJDg%40mail.gmail.com
>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/advaitin/CAKqm3-ovjpr2K1mR6dS2bF_ytrmDHT9pCJSQDWwAz3p0y8SJDg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>> .
>>
>