[Advaita-l] [advaitin] RE: pratiyogI-jnAna being mandatory for abhAva-jnAna

[Sudhanshu Shekhar]

Namaste Michael ji.

Let us not go to avidyA-vidyA debate here. We should first crystallise as
to whether it is possible to have x-abhAva-jnAna without x-jnAna.

If I ask Mr A - do you have tuoli in your home?

He cannot answer unless he knows what is a tuoli.

So he would counter question - what is a tuoli.

Such normal usual course of daily affairs proves without a doubt that
x-jnAna is a prerequisite of x-abhAva-jnAna.

And to the best of my knowledge, all branches of Indian Philosophy accept
this basic concept.

I just wish to know if there is any branch of Indian Philosophy which does
not accept this. I would read their arguments.

As for SSSS Ji's view, we may consider it some other time. He has taken up
this issue and tried to argue that x-jnAna is not required for
x-abhAva-jnAna. However, that is not correct in my opinion.

Regards.

On Mon, 29 Jul, 2024, 15:24 Michael Chandra Cohen, <
michaelchandra108 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Sudhanshu Shekharji, pranam.
>
> Often you have raised this pratiyogin objection against an abhavarupa
> avidya however it is based on some kind of existential positive abhava
> entity as opposed to a mere absence of knowledge. That seems to be an
> original argument made in the Ishta Siddhi and apparently repeated in the
> Vivarana but is addressed by SSSS in chapter 12 of his Vedanta Prakriya
> Pratyabinna/The Method of the Vedanta. SSSSji first cites the original
> objection and then offers the correct view with support from Sankara in
> Gita 13.26.
>
> "The illusory manifestation is totally non-existent in any form or at any
> time apart from the place, time and form in which it was perceived. And at
> the time of cancellation its whole being is seen to have been exhausted in
> its manifestation in that way at that place."
>
> This is explained by Bhasyakara as the correction of an apparent
> conjunction between snake and rope by the negation of the apparency upon
> the only ever existing rope without the possibility of any kind of positive
> ignorance being assumed
>
> I have simplified but hope it will not be taken as a substitute for
> SSSSji's clarification. Here are links to the exact pages for more
> clarification and depth regarding this issue. Kindly consider
>
> Regards, MCC
>
>
> https://archive.org/details/the-method-of-the-vedanta-a-critical-account-of-the-advaita-tradition-swami-satchidanandendra/page/n845/mode/2up
>
> https://archive.org/details/the-method-of-the-vedanta-a-critical-account-of-the-advaita-tradition-swami-satchidanandendra/page/n791/mode/2up?view=theater
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 29, 2024 at 6:49 AM 'Bhaskar YR' via advaitin <
> advaitin at googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
>> praNAms Sri Sudhanshu prabhuji
>>
>> Hare Krishna
>>
>>
>>
>> I would like to know this from avidyA-vidyA perspective.  Hence I asked
>> that doubt.  To talk anything about Atma jnAna we should have had knowledge
>> about it  ‘then’ and feeling the absence of the same ‘now’.  If this query
>> not related /applicable to this then I have least interest in knowing
>> anything further.
>>
>>
>>
>> Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
>>
>> bhaskar
>>
>>
>>
>> The question is very simple BhAskar ji. In order to know whether there is
>> abhAva of ushkalanta in the room, one has to first know what is ushkalanta.
>>
>>
>>
>> So, x-abhAva-jnAna in the room requires x-jnAna.
>>
>>
>>
>> This is what advaita teachings holds.
>>
>>
>>
>> I was interested to know if any other Indian Philosophy branch holds
>> contrary view.
>>
>>
>>
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>